Pedersoli vs Parker Hale Whitworth

I know the progressive rifling of PH 1858s and 1853s differences vs other repos...but is there any big reasons for a PH over a modern Pedersoli repro Whitworth? Other than new Pedersoli's are readily available?

TIA,

Brian

I can do no more to convince you than ask you to watch Brett Gibbons' latest YouTube post - a tale of two Whitworths....I've included my preamble from the Whitworth Collectors' page of FB - yesterday, coincidentally, was Sir Joseph's birthday. I bought my first P-H Whitworth [#888] in 1986, and second ]#420] in 2022.

'Happy Birthday, Sir Joseph! And to celebrate the event, here's Brett's latest YT production with a debut of a 1980-made Parker-Hale Whitworth, the very first shots EVER from this iconic rifle, showing clearly why they are so valued by the cognoscenti - that is to say, us poor folks who can't quite step up to the heady finances of a genuine article. Brett is shooting his EuroArms with less success, but with just as much fun, no doubt.'




Please note that the hexagonal Whitworth rofling is NOT progressive. The bullet, if a hexagon, is a fit for the rifling with a turn of, I bleeve, 1:20, and makes a perfect fit on firing. A cylindrical bullet like the multi-groove Lyman, turns into a hexagon with the help of between 70 and 90gr of 3Fg. Both shapes work perfectly well. You can clearly see the six-sided holes in this target, shot with my original rifle many moons ago -


This is the first ten shots with #420, last year. Again, the bullets were round and the holes are hexagonal....

and here is the rifle...

Absolutely, Happy Birthday, Sir Joseph!

I got to meet Brett on a weekend getaway with my wife a couple of months ago in Gettysberg the weekend he got back from being deployed. I bought the Destroying Angel from him, and he even gave a few of his Pritchetts for the Enfield. A major seed was planted there. Thanks to a couple of folks here, I have started down that path of the 1853/1858s.

Next adventure will be saving for a Whitworth! Other than saving $$$ want to get to be as knowledgeable as I can get but also ensure the Pedersoli is inline with the PHs which are a bit harder to find...

Looks like Parker Hale wins that round!

Basically, the same.
Pedersoli cannot use costic chemicals as did PH so the Ped barrels are brown and the case hardening is different as well.

m4fun said:

Absolutely, Happy Birthday, Sir Joseph!
….. …Next adventure will be saving for a Whitworth! Other than saving $$$ want to get to be as knowledgeable as I can... …..

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Joseph Whitworth was born at Stockport, on the 21st of December, 1803. I have on my web site a contemporary memoir and portrait of Whitworth, that was published in ‘The National Portrait Gallery‘ c1878. However, also browse the site further and you will fine much information on Whitworth rifles.

David

m4fun said:

Absolutely, Happy Birthday, Sir Joseph!

I got to meet Brett on a weekend getaway with my wife a couple of months ago in Gettysberg the weekend he got back from being deployed. I bought the Destroying Angel from him, and he even gave a few of his Pritchetts for the Enfield. A major seed was planted there. Thanks to a couple of folks here, I have started down that path of the 1853/1858s.

Next adventure will be saving for a Whitworth! Other than saving $$$ want to get to be as knowledgeable as I can get but also ensure the Pedersoli is inline with the PHs which are a bit harder to find...

Looks like Parker Hale wins that round!

Click to expand...

Mr Dungspreader - a much-missed poster to this forum who lived and farmed in western BC, bought a Pedersoli Whitworth rifle and posted his experience down on the counter. You might care to research his words and photos before you put your >$2000.

To me, having owned two P-H versions, and handled both Italian makers products, it seems that finding a good EuroArms version with a serial between 9000 and 15000 should be your goal - they had Birmingham-proofed P-H barrels. Major Gibbons seems mighty pleased with HIS EuroArms WW. Me, I'm saying no more.

Before EuroArms production the Italian made Parker-Hale Whitworths were made by Armi San Paolo, later evolving into EuroArms. My ASP made "Franken-Hale" SN 35xxx is dated 1999. The barrel is marked "Parker-Hale London England" while a faint "P-H" is visible on the lock's bridle. "Made in Italy" in small letters is stamped on the trigger guard. After moving from San Paolo to Concesio, ASP became EuroArms in January 2002. YMMV

TFoley said:

Mr Dungspreader - a much-missed poster to this forum who lived and farmed in western BC, bought a Pedersoli Whitworth rifle and posted his experience down on the counter. You might care to research his words and photos before you put your >$2000.

To me, having owned two P-H versions, and handled both Italian makers products, it seems that finding a good EuroArms version with a serial between 9000 and 15000 should be your goal - they had Birmingham-proofed P-H barrels. Major Gibbons seems mighty pleased with HIS EuroArms WW. Me, I'm saying no more.

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Merry Xmas Rudyard . I was Given a PH WW but sold it to Peter Jauqkes how ever its spelt I must have fired it I had three moulds for it inc one Channel Islander, makers Name escapes me ime getting forget full you will know him Ime sure I went off 451s at short range went to 38 one in 18" pitch full match. As rare I got any ranges over 500 yards .One of my" Poor mans full match" Hawkins NZ 451 shot a 98 at Bisley MLA Short range Gordon Gerrade. but the rifle sans sight came up in a Cheshire Auction for the price of the barrel ! ticket job !
.Regards Rudyard

Rudyard said:

I must have fired it I had three moulds for it inc one Channel Islander, makers Name escapes me ….. …

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Probably (the late) George Arnold. I have one of his hex moulds. He also made equipment to swage hexagonal Whitworth bullets.


David

ResearchPress said:

Probably (the late) George Arnold. I have one of his hex moulds. He also made equipment to swage hexagonal Whitworth bullets.
View attachment 370679

David

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I had a boat-tailed base George Arnold mould that made a well-fitting bullet that shot like throwing it underarm. The person who bought it from me tried for years to find a load combination that worked, and failed. It might still be making the rounds of the MLAGB for all I know. He was in it at the time, but I've never been a member.


That's a really good-looking bullet, BTW. Does it shoot?

Whitworth said:

Before EuroArms production the Italian made Parker-Hale Whitworths were made by Armi San Paolo, later evolving into EuroArms. My ASP made "Franken-Hale" SN 35xxx is dated 1999. The barrel is marked "Parker-Hale London England" while a faint "P-H" is visible on the lock's bridle. "Made in Italy" in small letters is stamped on the trigger guard. After moving from San Paolo to Concesio, ASP became EuroArms in January 2002. YMMV

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The barrel was made by P-H, but not the breeching - with that serial I'm sure you'll see Italian proof stamps from GvT. Parker-Hale were not based in London - their factory was at Golden Hillock Road Birmingham.

TFoley said:

The barrel was made by P-H, but not the breeching - with that serial I'm sure you'll see Italian proof stamps from GvT. Parker-Hale were not based in London - their factory was at Golden Hillock Road Birmingham.

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That's good news about the P-H made barrel, thanks Mr. Foley. Interesting that their barrels were marked London but they weren't located there, were their sales offices in London?

Whitworth said:

That's good news about the P-H made barrel, thanks Mr. Foley. Interesting that their barrels were marked London but they weren't located there, were their sales offices in London?

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No. Parker-Hale operated out of their HQ in Birmingham via a set of dealer/retailers. When I bought my GP35 Browning pistol in 1969 I bought it FROM P-H via my local dealership.

I've not seen any P-H barrel marked 'London'.

This is how their barrels are usually marked - roll-stamp at 12 o/c -

Musketoon -

Whitworth #420 -

Whitworth #888

ResearchPress said:

Probably (the late) George Arnold. I have one of his hex moulds. He also made equipment to swage hexagonal Whitworth bullets.
View attachment 370679

David

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Yes George Arnold ,I had a great rapore with the Dorgan's Ide make a snap matchlock shoot it at the Short range event on Short Siberia then sold it to Dave .We where both RFDs . in 1988 I won the Gold in the Courtney cup it was gun number 88 of 1988 Ide make a lock in NZ buy a 40 cal smooth barrel in the US then stock it in UK. Shoot the match then sell it Dave & did same next year.
& as Editors I wrote so much more than Sheffield ever did they made me a' Nelson Branch ' (of one ) me & Tim Busby another ' The Taranaki ' Branch '' He's not well but has bought my guns I've now made well over 200 MLs various very various unlike the' Fentons' some stayed with . he & Dave Monk got a profile in BP so I wrote my Profile with a pic of me hunting with my Wheellock 45 RB the sort the silly UK' beer talkers ' disparage as unsuitable to hunt UK Deer .But our Deer don' t know that so die in ignorance.But I guess you stay with target rifles .
Regards Rudyard

TFoley said:

No. Parker-Hale operated out of their HQ in Birmingham via a set of dealer/retailers. When I bought my GP35 Browning pistol in 1969 I bought it FROM P-H via my local dealership.

I've not seen any P-H barrel marked 'London'.

This is how their barrels are usually marked - roll-stamp at 12 o/c -

Musketoon -
View attachment 370700
Whitworth #420 -
View attachment 370703
Whitworth #888
View attachment 370704

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My clutch was slipping when I said London Of all the things I've lost I miss my memory most

Rudyard said:

Yes George Arnold ,I had a great rapore with the Dorgan's Ide make a snap matchlock shoot it at the Short range event on Short Siberia then sold it to Dave .We where both RFDs . in 1988 I won the Gold in the Courtney cup it was gun number 88 of 1988 Ide make a lock in NZ buy a 40 cal smooth barrel in the US then stock it in UK. Shoot the match then sell it Dave & did same next year.
& as Editors I wrote so much more than Sheffield ever did they made me a' Nelson Branch ' (of one ) me & Tim Busby another ' The Taranaki ' Branch '' He's not well but has bought my guns I've now made well over 200 MLs various very various unlike the' Fentons' some stayed with . he & Dave Monk got a profile in BP so I wrote my Profile with a pic of me hunting with my Wheellock 45 RB the sort the silly UK' beer talkers ' disparage as unsuitable to hunt UK Deer .But our Deer don' t know that so die in ignorance.But I guess you stay with target rifles .
Regards Rudyard

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TBH I've never felt the urge to go deer-stalking, as it's called here in UK. I've got a lovely old [1912] unmentionable that saw much use in Rhodesia between 1913 and 1990 as pot-meat gun, should the urge ever take me. However, I'd need a different type of Firearms Certificate and no doubt, due to my total inexperience, a period of mentoring, and last but not least, somewhere to take me on as a shooting liability to shoot on their land. Unlike NZ and USA, we can't just roll up to a likely bit of land and cut loose on the wild-life there. Here in UK somebody or other owns ALL of it.