1858 New Army Revolver

[timothymattson]

Hi all,
Have a new 1858 New Army Revolver (44 cal)that I plan to use for short range deer hunting here in Michigan. Have 54 shots through it, last 18 shots were 35 grains of 3F Pyrodex with .457 balls. Just curious if any of you have tried conicals instead of balls and if accuracy was better or worse, and also other tricks you have used to gain accuracy.

 

[necchi]

Look for topics in this section by member "duelist1954", go to his youtube videos and then a list of his videos. he did some really great stuff comparing round ball and conicals in revolvers, his stuff is really worth a look.

 

[FishDFly]

"Have a new 1858 New Army Revolver (44 cal)that I plan to use for short range deer hunting here in Michigan. Have 54 shots through it, last 18 shots were 35 grains of 3F Pyrodex with .457 balls. Just curious if any of you have tried conicals instead of balls and if accuracy was better or worse, and also other tricks you have used to gain accuracy."

Per the Lyman book your load will deliver about 300 lbs. of energy at the muzzle, at 25 yards about half that.

You are beginning to push the upper powder limit for Remington's, do as you wish.

Can you shoot 100 plus or better from a rest at 25 yards, that will put all your shots into the heart zone, anything larger gets them out of it?

 

[cynthialee]

I wouldn't shoot Bambi with a .44 revolver unless the critter was at 20 yards or less. (Well I would with a Walker or a Dragoon, but not the New Army.)

 

The conical bullets wont move quite as fast but will penetrate well. Besides, conicals were the norm loaded in these old guns back in the 1860s. I cant recommend enough duelist1954. Search him on youtube. Alot of bp work that dwarfs my own youtube work. And a great fella to boot.

 

[crockett]

There's a Florida group that goes on hog hunts with 1858 Remingtons. They use flat pointed conicals and ffffg powder (4 f's), it gets pretty technical but on the last hog hunt a hog charged and the conical went the body length of the hog- front to back.

 

Have a new 1858 New Army Revolver (44 cal) that I plan to use for short range deer hunting here in Michigan.

Why?

I'm serious. I could never figure out why guys want to do this. Is it just to see if you can kill something with a hand gun? Is killing some kind of "sport"?

 

[crockett]

I'd say it depends on where you live and your background. I hear they use firearms to shoot fish on the Vermont side of Lake Champlain- not my idea of sport but to each his own. In some places where you need both hands free to get through thick underbrush a handgun works pretty good.

 

[crockett]

The other thing on the handgun, if you have been in on some handgun hunting and seen them take game you get more comfortable with their use.

 

[nkbj]

Been threatening to come up with a mold for the .44 maybe like this one for the .36.

Although, there's a bunch of .44 mag molds (.43 caliber) running loose in the world that would be real easy to alter to fit a 1858 cylinder. Easier than changing a round ball mold.

 

[timothymattson]

Why?

I'm serious. I could never figure out why guys want to do this. Is it just to see if you can kill something with a hand gun? Is killing some kind of "sport"?

I would be lying if I said some of it is not for the "challange", same reason why I also love archery and archery hunting. I am a meat hunter, and cosume what I harvest (kill). I always stive to put a humane kill high on my list, which is why I am gathering information - if in the end I am not confident then I will not hunt with it. I was told by many some years back I was "dumb" for huting black bear with a bow, when the opportunity came I waited for the perfect shot (11 yards) and it was the fasted and most humane harvest I have ever had. BTY, contrary to some opinions, black bear meat is actually very good.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[Black Jack]

Before this thread gets to the "I seen my buddy kill a bear with a .22 in the head!" stage, just let me say that you could do much better. If you have a yen to use a pistol, there are heavy-duty pistols in .50 cal. and above made for this purpose that will deliver a quick, humane kill. If you are going to err, err on the side of sportsmanship. IMHO, shooting a deer with an 1858 Remington is more of a "stunt" than a hunt.

 

[Tater John]

Good honest answer

 

[M. De Land]

I've not killed any black bear with a revolver or bow but have with high powdered rifles (five) if I remember correctly and they are tough even when you hit them well and really tough if you don't.
If you can get withing bow range and are very careful with your shot like say from a blind over bait I think you will be OK with a conical but a ball would be on the light side for say an animal of over 250 lbs. I killed one once while moose hunting that squared six feet, was very fat and had to have gone well over 400 lbs. He would have been hard to stop with my ROA I think. Mike D.

 

Upload some group photos please. If you want to chase whitetail with a bp revolver then you got to put the bullets where they need to go. Bear in mind energywise you have little more than a well loaded 38 special in your hand with the exception if you are armed with a Walker or Dragoon revolver in which case you are in the mid-357 magnum range.

 

[swathdiver]

I could never figure out why guys want to do this. Is it just to see if you can kill something with a hand gun?

A sixgun is much more effective than a rifle in thick cover.

A .44 does far more damage to an elk sized critter than does a .30 caliber rifle inside of 100 yards.

When loaded with a Kaido Conical and Swiss BP for example, a shot within 50 yards on a hog or deer will create two big holes in the animal and if they're in the boiler room, it won't go far. If not, their will be a big but short blood trail.

 

[cschibi]

For those who are hard core deer hunters and have had the opportunity to harvest deer using modern high powered rifles, compound bows and now are looking for the challenge to test their skills with BP firearms is yet another avenue to learn the technical aspects becoming a marksman. This also provided the opportunity to appreciate the challenges of our forefathers... For whatever it's worth, I don't think it's unreasonable to appreciate the the level of skill required and effort it took took to make that a reality.

Personally, I have harvested deer using those firearms, then transitioned to Bow hunting and now have the goal of harvesting using BP firearms... it's not about the KILL but about what you need to learn and master the skills in order to harvest in the same manner as what is considered humane. BP hunting has many more complex variables that make's the challenge worth the effort.

My two cents...

 

[crockett]

Yeah- I was thinking of the Kaido Conical and Swiss BP and.... we are talking about very close range and deer or small hogs, not bigger stuff.
What got me into the handgun aspect. I was sitting on the ground- Florida jungles- a buck comes in behind me on my right. I shoot right handed so for the rifle- I would need to turn around or shoot left handed. That buck got away but if I had a handgun I could have easily killed it, it was about 15 feet (5 yards) away. Sometimes a handgun is exactly the best choice.

 

[rafterob]

The conical takes up more room and you won't get as much powder. If it was me, I would use the 35 gr. .457 load. Get up close and personal. The thing that helps accuracy with these revolvers is called "practice" - lots of it.

 

[rodwha]

Mr Beliveau's testing showed that a reduced load of 3F Triple 7 and the 255 grn Kaido conical produced 920 fps and 479 ft/lbs of energy, which penetrated 11 one gallon water jugs and kept going. This was with a mere 25 grns and a standard cylinder on a ROA, which holds about the same as an 1858.

3F Swiss and Olde Eynsford should give similar results as Triple 7.

That is much more than a mere 38 Spl +P, and has proven itself over and over with the fellows mentioned who hunt hogs with 1860's, 1858's, ROA's, Dragoon's, and Walker's.

One of those guys prefers a RB in his Walker if the hunt is likely to be within 25 yds or so stating the wound is much more grievous than with that Kaido conical.

I've wanted to use my ROA for hunting with, but have found that, offhand, I can't keep my groups under 4" out to 25 yds as I had hoped.