32 gauge half stock fowler

[texcl]

Yup, I'll post everything. I'm going to put a new hammer on and fit the triggerguard. Beats putting a whole kit together. The stock architecture is very different than most fowlers, it is definetly a Fowler profile but has some rifle like qualities.

 

[Bretwalda]

Will you provide a picture when you get it? :hatsoff:

 

[matt denison]

I saw and handled a gun similar to what you are describing at a show in Washington. The fellow who had it is considered a pretty sharp guy, knowledgable in the gun world. He told me it was what was often called a Garden Gun. Long barrel, small caliber smoothbore. The estate keeper would use it to dispatch varments in the gardens of large estates. Small cal. to reduce noise, enough power to kill rats, rodents, raiding birds, etc.

 

[BrownBear]

Hey Laffindog-

Do you know of anyone that makes these smaller gauge barrels that are suitably scaled for the caliber/gauge?

By that I mean that makers keep the OD the same for 20 and 28 gauge fowler barrels, making the 20 the lightest, with smaller gauges getting heavier and heavier as the hole gets smaller.

The thing that's topped me in making or buying a small gauge gun is weight. I want one that's "svelte" or trim and suitably balanced for the smaller bore, rather than a prybar.

 

[texcl]

I have some pics from when I bought it, I'm having problems copying them so I can post them. But I will post some eventually.

 

[matt denison]

Hey Laffindog-

Do you know of anyone that makes these smaller gauge barrels that are suitably scaled for the caliber/gauge?

By that I mean that makers keep the OD the same for 20 and 28 gauge fowler barrels, making the 20 the lightest, with smaller gauges getting heavier and heavier as the hole gets smaller.

The thing that's topped me in making or buying a small gauge gun is weight. I want one that's "svelte" or trim and suitably balanced for the smaller bore, rather than a prybar.

I am suprised that there isn't someone making these barrels that are svelte and trim. You can of course get a custom from Hoyt (or some others) that will be expensive because they are a one-up run. That Garden Gun that i handled was extremely light, almost like a toy, I liked it very much but I didn't feel that it would handle a full house charge well. Barrel would be whippy, recoil could become a factor. I imagined it handling 25-30 gr. of powder OK for rats etc. but not much more. I know that Ray Franks (Sitting Fox) had some .410 barrels made for his Boys Gun, don't know where he got them, they are or were available though.

I have trimmed an extra .050" from my 24 and 28 gage barrels to reduce weight but can't go down any farther or they won't fit in our pre carved stock barrel channel.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Many years ago, I saw some guns made by Pappy Horne being passed around to folks at a rendezvous. They had lots of silver or chrome parts, half stocks, and camo painted round barrels. But, they were light, and of small gauge than 28. At the time, I was under the impression they were .410 barrels, but I can't recall why I thought that. They were fowlers in shape, and flintlocks. They were extremely light in weight, with the balance point back at the trigger guard.

I was not interested in the silver plate or chrome plating, nor in the camo paint, but I do have to admire the originality of the work, and the execution was top notch.

I would think that a .51 or .52 caliber smoothbore could begin life as any .50 caliber rifle barrel, and have a machinist turn the barrel down to round for most of its length to reduce the weight, and shift the balance point further back. 32Gauge is nominally .526". Personally, I would be inclined to keep some of the octagon shape at the rear end of the barrel, but even that might be tapered over the length of the forestock, to cut down weight.

I suspect that no one makes these guns very often simply because a 28 gauge can do all the shooting that these can do, and 28 ga. barrels are much more available.You can easily load less shot, and shoot .410 bore equivalent loads from a 28, getting better patterns withe the 28, and reduced noise.

I am talking about 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 drams of powder( 34 to 41 grains) behind a 1/2 oz, to 5/8 oz load of shot. The 28 ga. usually calls for 1 3/4 dram(48 grs.) of powder behind 3/4 oz. of shot for a "Light load", or 2 drams(55 grains) of powder behind a 5/8 to 3/4 oz. of shot.

When you look at the similarity in loads, its hard to justify making a new gauge barrel that is in between the .410 bore(67 ga.), and the 28 gauge.

There is a need for 28 ga. fowlers, built on 28 gauge barrels- not the larger 20 ga., or by boring the rifling out of a .54 caliber rifled barrel, to create a 1" wide barrel that is 28 ga. These barrels are simply too heavy for the fast kind of small game, and varmint shooting we want to do.

I was told years ago that the reason these thinner barrels are not being offered is solely because of the concern about builders cutting dovetails for the barrel hangers or keys too deep, and risking rupturing the barrel some time in use,down the road. The guns I saw had the hangers soldered onto the barrels, not dove tailed. Again these were round barreled guns- anything but traditional in form!

I did get to hold and shoulder one of them, and it remains the most lively smooth bore I have handled- almost too lively! :shocked2: It would take some getting used to, IMHO. :hmm: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[BrownBear]

Thanks for the feedback Laffindog, both for sources and your impressions of load limits on the really light barrels. I'll head over to Sitting Fox now.

 

[George]

I notice that several posters have expressed the opinion that the 32 gauge should be considered only as a light duty piece, for shooting tweety birds and rats in the garden. I believe that is a mistaken impression brought about by our modern shotgunning situation. It appears to me from the literature of the 18th century that they used much smaller bores than we do today, and that a 32 gauge would not be considered out of the ordinary as a regular fowling piece. Here's one statement from 1789:

"We have subjected this matter to the test of experiment, and the result has accordingly been, that a barrel of 22 or 24, which is the largest caliber usually employed in fowling pieces, threw its shot as closely as one of the smallest caliber, viz of 30 or 32."

In another place:

"He mentions a double-barrelled piece of 32 caliber, which was particularly liable to this clustering and lumping of the shot; but adds that the same thing did not happen to him with other barrels of 26 and 28 caliber, which he had used before."

None of this sounds like a discussion of garden guns, to me. These are hunters talking about their fowling pieces, not toys or novelties.

Spence

 

[George]

I should point out that in the two quotations in my last post the term "caliber" is not used as we do today. They used it in two ways. First, they defined it as balls to the pound and used it in the same way we use "gauge", today. Secondly, they used it interchangeably with what we call the "bore" of a gun, so they would say:

“Some gunsmiths, says Mons. de Marolles, pretend, that a barrel, in order to throw its shot closely, ought to have its caliber narrower in the middle, than at either the breech or muzzle; “

Spence

 

[BrownBear]

Good stuff Spence! Many thanks. It's good to get actual hands-on experience, no matter how old.

Now all I have to do is come up with a suitably light barrel for my tastes. One of my small Cochran locks would be ideal for the build.

As for effectiveness, I keep pretty close tabs on my upland shooting, and about 99% of the shots are inside 30 yards in tighter cover. Lighter shot charges are no handicap, while unchoked patterns are a boon. Seems like the perfect application for a light, quick fowler throwing no more than 3/4 or even 5/8 oz of shot. Heck, in modern guns I have to let them fly out a bit with 1/2 oz in a 410 due to the chokes.

 

[matt denison]

I notice that several posters have expressed the opinion that the 32 gauge should be considered only as a light duty piece, for shooting tweety birds and rats in the garden.

Sorry for any misunderstanding, Spence. I was refering to a particular gun, very lightweight, (light because of the light barrel) with thin barrel walls. You can tell with a gun that has a 40 + inch barrel that only weighs maybe 4 pounds that it will be whippy. The stock was fowler-ish but very thin. It might kill bigger stuff at longer distance but I don't think it was designed for that.

I think what MR B. Bear was asking about was if anyone makes barrels that are proportional to the small bore - or "hole" as he put it. A typical contemporary 20 gage smoothbore barrel has muzzle OD of 3/4 inch .750" Subtract the bore diameter and you can figure the wall thickness at about .060" generallly. If you used the same proportions for a .526" bore you could concievably have a muzzle OD of only .648", nearly a full tenth of an inch smaller and thus lighter. Very slim like the old H&R full choke .410 I learned to hunt with. (I miss that gun...)

 

[BrownBear]

I think what MR B. Bear was asking about was if anyone makes barrels that are proportional to the small bore - or "hole" as he put it. A typical contemporary 20 gage smoothbore barrel has muzzle OD of 3/4 inch .750" Subtract the bore diameter and you can figure the wall thickness at about .060" generallly. If you used the same proportions for a .526" bore you could concievably have a muzzle OD of only .648", nearly a full tenth of an inch smaller and thus lighter. Very slim like the old H&R full choke .410 I learned to hunt with. (I miss that gun...)

You nailed it. I want sufficient steel for safety, but I don't want to be lugging a bunch of extra out front to make the gun less responsive. I'm seeing it solely for use with shot, so I'm not looking for any weight out front like a guy might want for shooting RB.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I agree. A light weight, " shot-only" fowling piece would be the berries. :blah: :rotf: :v :grin:

As much as I like the idea of shooting round balls our of a smooth bore, I simply don't need it. AND, I would gladly give up the option of shooting RB out of the gun for lightening the weight of the barrel so that the gun was something I never hesitated taking with me for a walk in the woods.

I grew up with a friend who was absolutely accurate using his first shotgun, a used Winchester model 37 .410 bore. Anything that he could see within 30 yards he got.

Now, if I could find a true 28 gauge single shot break-open action shotgun, where I could scavenge the barrel, making a MLing light weight 28 gauge gun would not be all that difficult. :hmm: :hatsoff:

 

[texcl]

There are a couple small bore Fowler barrels for sale on gun broker right now one of them is a 28 round barrel and the other 2 are octagon to round. 410s.

 

[Many Klatch]

Brown Bear, check out the barrels that Mike Lea has. My wife has one of his small .50 caliber smoothbores. The barrel is trim and slim and might be what you want. Mike's email is [email protected]

Many Klatch

 

[BrownBear]

Brown Bear, check out the barrels that Mike Lea has. My wife has one of his small .50 caliber smoothbores. The barrel is trim and slim and might be what you want. Mike's email is [email protected]

Many Klatch

Outstanding recommendation. Thanks!!

 

[razorbritches]

men I just finished two .30 caliber smoothbore flinters mostly as an experiment for young shooters. But they are a pair of the finest little squirrel guns I have ever used, ball or shot, it kills everything I point it at

 

[asbrown]

You should check out Charles Burton. I have a 48" oct/rd .54 for a smooth rifle/fowler that weighs less than 5lb. I told him what I wanted to do with it and the barrel came out great. I'm sure with a quicker taper, shorter oct section, and lighter round section for a fowler only, hecould probably get it down to 4lbs.

 

[George]

men I just finished two .30 caliber smoothbore flinters mostly as an experiment for young shooters. But they are a pair of the finest little squirrel guns I have ever used, ball or shot, it kills everything I point it at

How are you loading for ball?

Spence