.36 Conundrum

[Thomas.bill92]

Hey there everyone. I am having an issue with a Pedersoli Frontier (cap-lock) I recently picked up in .36. My intention was to use it as a squirrel gun this year but until I can get this issue sorted out, the gun is not of much use. Anyway I started doing some load development using fffg Goex and right off the bat, loading was next to impossible, even with a heavy steel range rod. I wrote it off that the balls I had been using must not be larger than .350" and made an order for some Hornady .350 balls and some .010" ox-yoke patches. Well the next trip out to the range went a lot better, loading was much smoother even without swabbing the bore (I shot over 50 times that session)... The catch is, I was using Pyrodex . I even used my home cast balls and they loaded just fine too which leads me to the powder.

I would like to use real black for this rifle because well... Its real black powder! I have also read that it is easier to clean and less corrosive than Pyrodex (and this gun is a PITA to clean). The fouling with real black powder is so bad that loading is next to impossible with the rifles ramrod and really quite difficult with a range rod too, that is until the ball is halfway down and the fouling is so bad that the batch gets destroyed and the bare ball falls down the bore. Pyrodex patches look fine but the BP ones are solid black and torn up beyond recognition. Swabbing between the shots is a real chore as the patch wants to grab all the fouling on the way out and I have to use pliers to remove the rod (patch is soaked with moose milk or rubbing alcohol). At this point I might just stick with Pyrodex P and deal with the occasional hang fire and more corrosive residue. Should I try polishing the bore with scotch brite? I want a tight fit for accuracy sake so I don't really want to go looser on the patch/ball combo.

Sorry for the long winded post and thanks in advance for any sage advice.

-Bill

 

[TreeMan]

What are you lubing your patches with? My experience is that pyrodex leaves as much fouling as black powder. Also use a .32 cal jag with your cleaning patch to remedy that stuck in the barrel cleaning patch. I always use a smaller caliber jag for cleaning. I use a 45 jag to clean a 50 cal, and a 50 cal
Jag to clean a 54. Might have to use a bit thicker cleaning patch to keep from losing it in the barrel. Keep a patch puller jag just in case. In small caliber rifles I just use spit as a patch lube and never clean between shots. Your ball
Patch combo might just be too tight.

 

[Britsmoothy]

If it were mine. I would be loading a thin card, lube, another thin card and then the patched ball.
The lube would be animal fat and vegetable oil mix. My patches would be plastered in it.
Gotta keep that fouling soft.

By all means polish the bore if you can. It won't hurt nothing but help the patch.

 

[dave61965]

What kind of powder charge are you using ?

 

[deermanok]

One thing you might try, based on my own experience.
I have a rifle that had a bit of a rough bore due to lack of cleaning by the previous owner.
With the barrel cleaned, you could get a 32 caliber jag that will screw onto the ramrod or range rod.
Then cut some 1/4" or so wide strips of scotch brite pads (green ones). You'll need to do 50 or so, strokes with the pad, changing the strips every ten strokes.
This process will smooth out the barrel, eliminating any rough spots down there.

 

[Thomas.bill92]

What are you lubing your patches with? My experience is that pyrodex leaves as much fouling as black powder. Also use a .32 cal jag with your cleaning patch to remedy that stuck in the barrel cleaning patch. I always use a smaller caliber jag for cleaning. I use a 45 jag to clean a 50 cal, and a 50 cal
Jag to clean a 54. Might have to use a bit thicker cleaning patch to keep from losing it in the barrel. Keep a patch puller jag just in case. In small caliber rifles I just use spit as a patch lube and never clean between shots. Your ball
Patch combo might just be too tight.

What are you lubing your patches with? My experience is that pyrodex leaves as much fouling as black powder. Also use a .32 cal jag with your cleaning patch to remedy that stuck in the barrel cleaning patch. I always use a smaller caliber jag for cleaning. I use a 45 jag to clean a 50 cal, and a 50 cal
Jag to clean a 54. Might have to use a bit thicker cleaning patch to keep from losing it in the barrel. Keep a patch puller jag just in case. In small caliber rifles I just use spit as a patch lube and never clean between shots. Your ball
Patch combo might just be too tight.

So with this rifle, I have been using wonder-lube pre-lubed patches. For all of my other rifles, I use olive oil and cut at the muzzle with good results. I just couldn't find anything thin enough that was sturdy enough to be used for patches that was 0.010" so I bought some pre cut and lubed ones.

 

[Thomas.bill92]

What kind of powder charge are you using ?

Starting at 20gr and working up an accurate load for squirrel. Figured I would keep it on the light side for the sake of not destroying the squirrels. I got my best results with Pyrodex between 25 and 30 gr.

 

[Thomas.bill92]

One thing you might try, based on my own experience.
I have a rifle that had a bit of a rough bore due to lack of cleaning by the previous owner.
With the barrel cleaned, you could get a 32 caliber jag that will screw onto the ramrod or range rod.
Then cut some 1/4" or so wide strips of scotch brite pads (green ones). You'll need to do 50 or so, strokes with the pad, changing the strips every ten strokes.
This process will smooth out the barrel, eliminating any rough spots down there.

Yeah, I think that will be my next step. Do you think .32 will be small enough to get that scotch-brite down the bore or should I go .25 or .22?

 

[deermanok]

Yeah, I think that will be my next step. Do you think .32 will be small enough to get that scotch-brite down the bore or should I go .25 or .22?

Absolutely, if you got smaller.
Then you can find the best width pad.

 

[deermanok]

My is a 50 caliber and I used a 45 caliber jag. It worked good. I cut the strips about 3/8".

 

[dave61965]

Starting at 20gr and working up an accurate load for squirrel. Figured I would keep it on the light side for the sake of not destroying the squirrels. I got my best results with Pyrodex between 25 and 30 gr.

I’ve got a frontier .36 flintlock, I shoot about 30 gr of 3f goex, .350 ball and pillow ticking patch cut at the muzzle, usually spit patched for plinking and for hunting a homemade lube of beeswax, olive oil and a little Murphy’s oil soap to make it creamy looking, really don’t have any fouling issues but possibly if your gun is new the bore may need to be shot or take a green scrubbie to it and smooth it out a bit.

 

[Britsmoothy]

So with this rifle, I have been using wonder-lube pre-lubed patches. For all of my other rifles, I use olive oil and cut at the muzzle with good results. I just couldn't find anything thin enough that was sturdy enough to be used for patches that was 0.010" so I bought some pre cut and lubed ones.

I've never really heard good things about prelubricated patches and neither from wonderlube!

 

[deermanok]

You could take a look at the gun works/muzzleloading emporium.
They have dry patches for 30-39 caliber. .05 to .020 thick.
Oxyoke, Eastern Maine brands.

 

[Gvilleddie]

Don’t use pre-lubed patches. I tried to use em and after firing, the patches were just a little ball of thread. Lots of fouling and poor accuracy. Use plain patches and lube with mink oil.

 

[Sidney Smith]

I don't understand this. I have a .32 caliber, use 3fg black powder and mine is no more difficult to clean than my .54 caliber guns. Maybe it has something to do with yours being a caplock, that somehow it fouls more? That's as far as my thinking takes me on this.

And BTW I use prelubed patches with mine. Never experienced the problems you're having. My gun is a flintlock though.

 

[Thomas.bill92]

I don't understand this. I have a .32 caliber, use 3fg black powder and mine is no more difficult to clean than my .54 caliber guns. Maybe it has something to do with yours being a caplock, that somehow it fouls more? That's as far as my thinking takes me on this.

And BTW I use prelubed patches with mine. Never experienced the problems you're having. My gun is a flintlock though.

I think it has to do with breech design. It's hard for me to clean all the crud out of the reduced diameter patent breech. I have been using water for cleaning then ballistol for rust prevention, come back a couple days later and the bore is full of rust which could be part of my problem .

 

[painter]

I think it has to do with breech design. It's hard for me to clean all the crud out of the reduced diameter patent breech. I have been using water for cleaning then ballistol for rust prevention, come back a couple days later and the bore is full of rust which could be part of my problem .

I have a Pedersoli Frontier percussion in .36. I use 3 Fg. What I do to clean out the patent breech is to thread a q-tip into the end of my cleaning rod and slide it into the small diameter of the breech. After cleaning, and drying, I'll use a clean q-tip to put a little oil in the same area.

 

[dave951]

I'm still waiting to hear what powder he's using. Saying it's "real black powder" in 3f means nothing. Elephant was darn inconsistent. Swiss is best followed closely by Old E. Standard Goex is known for fouling. Goex "reenactor" powder is just the sweepings from the floor put into a can and sold to the unsuspecting.

Back to the patch, if the barrel is new, you probably need to smooth it out a bit inside. Many ways to do it. As it gets smoothed out, all you need is a wad over the powder and a patch lubed with mink oil.

 

[Thomas.bill92]

I'm still waiting to hear what powder he's using. Saying it's "real black powder" in 3f means nothing. Elephant was darn inconsistent. Swiss is best followed closely by Old E. Standard Goex is known for fouling. Goex "reenactor" powder is just the sweepings from the floor put into a can and sold to the unsuspecting.

Back to the patch, if the barrel is new, you probably need to smooth it out a bit inside. Many ways to do it. As it gets smoothed out, all you need is a wad over the powder and a patch lubed with mink oil.

I said Goex in my original post, I think I'm find some Scotch Brite and speed up the break in process.

 

[Thomas.bill92]

I have a Pedersoli Frontier percussion in .36. I use 3 Fg. What I do to clean out the patent breech is to thread a q-tip into the end of my cleaning rod and slide it into the small diameter of the breech. After cleaning, and drying, I'll use a clean q-tip to put a little oil in the same area.

That's a nice little trick! I will definitely try that out.