45 and deer

[ian45662]

Is 55 grains of 3F enough for a deer at lets say 50-60 yards with a 45 round ball out of a flintlock?

 

[TrevorAaron]

yes sir

 

[ian45662]

What do you suppose the lowest charge I could use to make an ethical harvest at that distance? All I need the round ball to do is puncture the heart or lungs right?

 

[S.Kenton]

I would say at 55 grains your prolly right on the border line now..I wouldn't go any lower. I normally use 70 grains of 777 and shoot out to 100 yrds with my 45. I killed 6 deer with it since owning it. I think it's a little more accurate long distance then my 50 cal. BUT that just might be me... :idunno:

 

[buford87]

To answer this question you should do some penetration test on some type of medium. Also if you barely load heavy enough to penetratethe heart or lungs and then you have a monster deer at more of an angle where more penetration is needed you will not have enough with your barely enough light load . If you use enough powder so you are sure you have enough power in case of Murphy's law I believe you will be better off all the way around...................watch yer top knot................

 

[S.Kenton]

Also, the lower the charge the less chance you have of breaking bone in case of a bad shot..I had my 45 out one morning and shot a deer in the shoulder accidently..but I had 70 grains of 777, it broke the shoulder and went on in and and punctured the heart and went on out the other side. It was a bad shot.. but it worked out anyhow.The doe ran about 10 yrds and piled up IF you had 55 grains or less it might not have did the damage needed to make the kill..just my 2 cents..others may disagree.

 

[roundball]

All I need the round ball to do is puncture the heart or lungs right?

Yes, under ideal, perfect laboratory conditions...But...what if you've misjudged the distance...or the deer starts turning just as the sear breaks and now a shoulder gets in the way by the time the shot is executed and the ball arrives.
Powder is a very cheap part of the equation...for example, I use 90grns Goex 3F in mine and never worry about the outcome.

So responding to your question, my personal view is that a better .45cal hunting load is one with a much larger powder charge than your reference.

 

[tg]

Probably but you may want a bit more whump, I used 65gr 3f when hunting with a .45 and 70 or so with a .50 some use even stouter loads, I put a pretty moderate limit on my ranges and stuck with them so I did not worry about the occasional Deer at 90 yds that I had to let walk, there will always be a Deer that is past the guns or your limit in range, it is probably better to go with more powder than needed rather than come up short if a long shot is taken as long as accuracy does not suffer,giving up rifles and hunting only with one smoothbore really makes the whole process much simpler for me now.I would not shoot much past 60-70 yds with the 55gr load myself at Blacktail probably 50 yds or so with the bigger Deer

 

[ian45662]

Thanks for the info guys. I probably wont have a shot much further than 60 yds 100 at the very most but if I had a light load then I would just let the deer walk and wait for a better opportunity . I will load it up to 65 grains then just to be on the safe side. I am not interested in saving money I was just curious as to what it would take.

 

[roundball]

Thanks for the info guys. I probably wont have a shot much further than 60 yds 100 at the very most but if I had a light load then I would just let the deer walk and wait for a better opportunity . I will load it up to 65 grains then just to be on the safe side. I am not interested in saving money I was just curious as to what it would take.

To put even a 65grn charge into another perspective, T/C Arms published load data for their .45cal PRB load is 50 to 110 grns Goex...often 50-60grn entry level powder charges are used for plinking at the range.

You mentioned not be interested in saving money, so out of curiosity what exactly is the reluctance in using a more robust powder charge...ie: a big game load for big game. Is it shooting skills at distance? Is recoil an issue?

 

[tg]

Not meaning to step in between you guys but I have seen the 60-70 gr3f range to be very common with many hunters using the .45 on many of these forums over the years, nothing against the heavier loads as they are fine as well if accurate, I have had some imports that did not do so well accuracy wise with heavier loads in the past so I stayed where I had been even when I got guns with better capabilities, as they more than took care of my needsat the moderate ranges I limited myself to, and which were also the norm due to habitat/ geography....Go ahead I am done butting in.. :wink:

 

[roundball]

You're not butting in at all...we have a thread where a question was asked, answers were given including the rationale behind alternative choices...the original poster annouced he'd decided on somewhat of a low end load, but didn't offer any corresponding rationale in return, so I simply asked what that rationale was...

 

[Stumpkiller]

What do you suppose the lowest charge I could use to make an ethical harvest at that distance? All I need the round ball to do is puncture the heart or lungs right?

Ethical harvest? Ethics doesn't enter into it. If you were going to minimize pain and suffering you'd take a picture.

Is it ethical to use a .45 when a .50, .54 or .58 is available?

These questions can't be answered by others. Your ethics are your own.

Can you cleanly kill a deer with a .45 and 55 gr FFg? Yes. If you chose your shots carefully, don't strike unnoticed brush or twigs, your powder charge is fresh and untainted by moisture or lubes in the bore, the ignition is fast so your muzzle doesn't wobble off before the "bang" and your aim is true. None of those unforseen things would be unethical. Just happenstance.

Is it ethical for a puma to drag down a struggling deer and slowly suffocate it by crushing the windpipe in it's jaws? Yes. Because that is their nature.

Don't deny your nature.

 

[ian45662]

I dont want to use to heavy of a load because I dont know what the effects would be on the touch hole liner. It is a jim chambers white lightning liner

 

[Rat Trapper]

Thanks for the info guys. I probably wont have a shot much further than 60 yds 100 at the very most but if I had a light load then I would just let the deer walk and wait for a better opportunity . I will load it up to 65 grains then just to be on the safe side. I am not interested in saving money I was just curious as to what it would take.

To put even a 65grn charge into another perspective, T/C Arms published load data for their .45cal PRB load is 50 to 110 grns Goex...often 50-60grn entry level powder charges are used for plinking at the range.

You mentioned not be interested in saving money, so out of curiosity what exactly is the reluctance in using a more robust powder charge...ie: a big game load for big game. Is it shooting skills at distance? Is recoil an issue?

You would do well to listen to Round ball. Keep the plinking loads on the taget range!

 

[Dave K]

If that is you concern and the vent was installed properly, use a higher charge that you or your gun can accurately shoot, within the load range design of the gun. When it comes to the game, use enough power to get the job done. If you truly use "archery" type of hunting ranges and YOU abide to them, you should have no problems if YOU are up to the challenge. I was wondering why you were looking for a min. charge to use.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I dont want to use to heavy of a load because I dont know what the effects would be on the touch hole liner. It is a jim chambers white lightning liner

That is a top-of-the-line liner (assuming it was installed correctly). That should not limit the powder choice up to "sensible" limits for thousands of shots. Personally, I'd be hovering around the 75 gr of FFg mark to see what the accuracy was doing with a load in the 70 to 80 gr range. Drop down 5 gr if using FFFg.

Don't send a squirrel load out to do a deer job.

 

[tg]

I would not expect any issues with the liner, I used the 65gr 3f for sevreral yeasr with good results and just did not need any more for my hunting needs and could bnot se useing more just because I could, if someone is going to have to shot or choose to shoot in the 100 yds range I would think the hottest load that hold a tight group would be the best choice, but I have never been an advocate for the 100 yd standard that seems to come up when talking ML's I think 75yds is a better choice for most hunters with PRB and primitive sights

 

[PJC]

I have settled on 80gr of FFFG and a patched .440 round ball. My max range is 50-60 yards. I hunt a lot of swamp area and just do not get long range shots. Most of my shots are in the 25-35 yard range.

PJC

 

[luieb45]

I'm glad this thread came up because I might be buying a .45 as a back-up deer gun and plinker this year. I'm not sure if I should if I do buy it just go ahead and maybe use a conical for deer :idunno:.