4F Black Powder Question

[Carbon 6]

Does 1f have a "broad ranging applicability" as a propellant?

Sam Fadala thought it was pretty much useless.

 

[jerrywh]

It never fails. Tose who know the least always think they are a genius. And geniuses usually think they know little, What we have here is a common troll or two.

 

[Carbon 6]

Also curious as to what wood they use for charcoal.

Alder buckthorn.

 

[Bob McBride]

Didn't mean to imply you were advocating the "dangerous" angle , we had that conversation earlier and I agree with your assessments.

What I was trying to do is track down and verify this "forum post" referenced by MtnMan, and it would seem from the information you have provided that this was a statement made early in Knight's career, before he was employed at a powder company or was advising them.

Given his age, that would kind of preclude it being an internet post, and would certainly preclude it being any kind of up to date information. That he worked for a competitor, or may have been trying to gain a position with that Brazilian based competitor would explain the accusation of nefarious practices by GOEX/Dupont.

Still amounts to simply a red herring provided by the 4faphobes in regards the ongoing discussion here.

I understand. No, he made the above statement today. He's moderately active on another forum. Anyway, always interesting to check in and see if we've moved the ball...

 

[TNGhost]

Yes, if you're going to put your face next to an explosion. You should know about the powder you're using.

I forgot to mention that Swiss has a bit more potassium nitride than Goex. Another reason for it's power.

So blame the powder companies. As someone seems to be "cheating" and others are slacking.

The F grading system seems to be flawed.

 

[FishDFly]

"Anyway, always interesting to check in and see if we've moved the ball..."

Huh, looks like time to punt to me.

Poor horse is tired.

 

[George]

Cheap shot.

Well, I've had a little persona experience with Mad Monk, so I'm entitled to a personal opinion.

Spence

 

[user 36911]

So blame the powder companies. As someone seems to be "cheating" and others are slacking.

The F grading system seems to be flawed.

Why is it that what I type and what you read isn't a match?

I think we've beaten this dead horse enough. Time for supper. I'm out.

 

[Carbon 6]

The F grading system seems to be flawed.

Why is it flawed ?
It's not flawed if you follow manufacturer recommendations.

 

[TNGhost]

Alder buckthorn.

Well I'll be. I have quite a lot of that growing out back. Pain in the *** it is. I guess it helps to know it is good for something.

 

[TNGhost]

Why is it flawed ?

If 70 grains of Swiss 3f is equal to 100 grains of GOEX 3f, well, ...you do the math.

When is an "F" not a "F"?

 

[TNGhost]

"Anyway, always interesting to check in and see if we've moved the ball..."

Huh, looks like time to punt to me.

Poor horse is tired.

Some people spend their entire lives in therapy for irrational fears.

 

[FishDFly]

Some insight into yourself, thanks.

 

[Carbon 6]

If 70 grains of Swiss 3f is equal to 100 grains of GOEX 3f, well, ...you do the math.

When is an "F" not a "F"?

Swiss says;

"Our shooting powder is graded 1-5 under the European classification system, and 1Fg to 4Fg using the Anglo-American scale. These classes identify the dimensions and number of corns per gram. It is crucial to choose the right type of gunpowder for best results. "

Type	Granulation	Use
1Fg 1.5Fg 2Fg 3Fg 4Fg 0B Böller Artillery	1.2-1.6 mm 0.85-1.2 mm 0.65-1.2 mm 0.5- 0.8 mm 0.25- 0.5 mm 0.19- 0.23 mm 1.0- 2.2 mm 1.3- 1.6 mm	Cannons, shotguns, and muskets .45 caliber rifles and greater .45 caliber rifles and greater .45 caliber rifles and smaller, pistols Flintlock priming powder only Flintlock priming powder only Cannons and mortars Cannon

Goex sizes.

Sporting Grades (G)	Grain Size (in mm)
Cannon Grade	4.76-1.68
1FG	1.68-1.19
2FG	1.19-.59
3FG	.84-.29
4FG	.42-.15

 

[nkbj]

Yall sure you wouldn't rather argue about the thickness of miniball skirts for a while?
We could make it 5F powder.

 

[Carbon 6]

Some people spend their entire lives in therapy for irrational fears.

Anything repetitive tends to be a reinforcement mechanism, (ie) habit forming.

 

[Carbon 6]

Yall sure you wouldn't rather argue about the thickness of miniball skirts for a while?
We could make it 5F powder.

My projectiles don't wear skirts.

Wait! Scratch that, I guess a patch wrapped around a ball would look like a skirt wouldn't it ?

 

[Zonie]

Getting back to Mad Monk's post about his findings with 4F powder, I think it explains something that bothers me about the results of the Lyman tests that used 4F powder as a main charge.

As Mad Monk mentions, the exposed surface area of 4F powder is around 1.5 X greater than 3F powder so, 4F should burn faster and create a much greater breech pressure right after it ignites. According to the Lyman data, it doesn't. It's breech pressure is close to that of 3F powder.

He does mention that the smaller granules do have less air space between them and there seems to be a lot of loose graphite mixed into 4F powder. A reduced air space between the granules could slow down the flame front as it passes thru the un-burned powder.

Is it possible that the combination of the smaller air space between the granules plus the presence of a significant amount of basically non-combustible graphite slows down the entire ignition process? That could result in lower breech pressures similar to the results Lyman found.

If the graphite is a factor in reducing the burning rate of 4F powder in a main charge, that brings up the question, is the amount of graphite controlled? Or is it just the product of whatever's left over after the glazing** process is done?

If it is just whatever is left over, then it's possible that the amount of graphite present in 4F powder could vary greatly making one batch of 4F quite safe as a main charge and another batch of 4F powder, shall we say, more risky?

**Glazing is the tumbling process that breaks off the sharp corners on the corned powder. Corning is the process of breaking up the large pressed cake of powder. Mad Monk, in one of his write-ups says, "Graphite is added to the powder, dusted on, to increase screening rates."

 

[jerrywh]

For those who don't know Nitrate is not the same as nitride. Black poder is charcoal sulfur and potassium nitrate. Not Nitride or Nitrite

 

[TNGhost]

It never fails. Tose who know the least always think they are a genius. And geniuses usually think they know little, What we have here is a common troll or two.

Personally I am beginning to think a couple of mutant rabbits across the pond got ahold of a computer and are seeking to stop britsmoothey from using 4f on their bunny brethren