.69 target loads?

[Moloch]

I shot my Armi Sports rifled .69 Springfield 1847 with .675 round ball and a .157 patch with a load of 75 grains swiss FFG powder. Result was that my shots hit about 10'' above the bullseye at 10-11 o-clock at 50 yds.
I've heard that many shooters have loads like mine, but hit much better than me. What am I doing wrong? Is 75 grains a too weak load? I wouldnt call myself a bad shot, I have years of experience at centerfire rifle shooting, I am just pretty new to muzzle loading. Tomorrow I'll try 90 grains or maybe 95 grains.

Yes, the twist is acutally made for miniés, but a lot of people get good results with patched round balls too out of rifled musket barrels.

 

[Adam Isrow]

Slow down, man. The first thing is to make sure you've got a good tight group. Shoot the same load/patch/powder combo at least three times. See what kind of group you've got. Don't worry about hitting the bull just yet, just worry about getting a tight group. Adjust one, but only one of the variables at a time until you get a tight group. May take a while, I hope it doesn't, but it may.
Once you've got a tight group, (that's what your rifle likes) now start adjusting the sights to move your tight group to the bullseye.

p.s. more powder usually moves the shot group up, not down.

 

[rice1817]

Also remember that the sights on these rifles were designed to hit a man somewhere in the chest area out to about 200 yards by the simple expedient of having the soldier hold on the belt buckle. So 11 inches high at 50 yards is about what would be expected.

 

[Moloch]

I went to the range today and I was more than disapointed. I had 4 different loads and with each load I shot a group of 5 shots. Interestingly I found out that no matter the load it will circle around the bullseye, I couldnt get a single meaningful group. Cleaning the barrel between the shots didnt improve anything either.
As example with 55 grains of swiss FFG powder and a .675 ball I hit low left, right high and than low right. I had to hold under but I used a stone under the target to aim at. There was no difference between the 55 grain and the 100 grain load, the shots made a nice 8'' circle around the bullseye, not a single shot in the black. A smoothbore musket with no sights would hit better with a load it likes.
I started to doubt my ability to shoot a gun accurately, I got a friends .58 loaded with 510 grain miniés and drilled holes into the bullseye with each shot standing at a target a little bit more than 50 yards away.

The last shot of the day was a 170 grain load to have at least a bit fun , god, it knocked my shooting glasses off. :nono:

Also remember that the sights on these rifles were designed to hit a man somewhere in the chest area out to about 200 yards by the simple expedient of having the soldier hold on the belt buckle. So 11 inches high at 50 yards is about what would be expected.

Thanks for clearing that up, I almost thought that theres something wrong with my rifles sights, but I wont shoot it again at 50 yards, I have troubles to compensate the high shots.

 

[rice1817]

Lots of guys shoot these at 50 by either replacing the front sight with a taller one, or else building up the existing front sight with JB Weld or some other type of epoxy, laying on a pad of weld, or some other method.

As far as groups go, keep experimenting with patch thickness, or maybe even putting a wad under the patch to help prevent patch burn-though. Powder charge will have some effect, but I have never seen a huge vaiant by changing loads.

 

[Moloch]

As far as groups go, keep experimenting with patch thickness, or maybe even putting a wad under the patch to help prevent patch burn-though. Powder charge will have some effect, but I have never seen a huge vaiant by changing loads.

I already shoot with patch under the patched bullet to prevent ''burners'', it tightened the groups a bit but didnt do wonders.
I cant help myself, it feels like I am doing something completely wrong, all those other guys at the range were shooting their rifles like me but got fist-sized groups with their .54's and .58's out of rifles with minié-rifling.:barf:
I dont think my bullet-patch setups is the problem, I looked around in this forum and .678 or .675 is the prefered bullet. The patch is very tight, it loads very easy but .002 thicker patch is impossible to load.
It just does not work, and I cant even blame the rifle, it wokrs flawlessy, the metal finish is very good and the barrel and rifling looks very good and clean. :hmm:

 

[paulvallandigham]

I bore guns, patching does not do a good enough job of sealing gases. You need to buy some OP wads that fit that gun( or are for the next size larger gauge) to use to seal the bore. The fact that your patches tend to reduce the size of your groups is THE Indicator, that you are heading in the right direction. If you don't want to buy OP WADs, try about a 40 grain by volume load of corn meal as a filler under your PRB. Also try the next thicker size of patching for that gun, and lube the barrel after seating the PRB. The added grease allows the PRB to slide over the barrel, replenishing the supply of lube in the patch in the process. You get a little more velocity, but it also reduces your SDV more. The rest of the problem is " New Gun Syndrome". You are not used to the trigger pull, the stock, the action, the timing of the lock, etc. to shoot tiny groups. That is why you are all around the bullseye.

Have someone else shoot the gun when you have a good load. Does the gun have a rear sight? How wide is the notch? If its not 2-3 times the width of the front sight as it appears in the notch when you look through the sights, the notch needs to be widened.

Do as suggested about replacing the front sight either with a taller, thinner blade, or filing and building up the existing blade so you can zero it at 50 yds. Then, when shooting for groups, to work up a load, By all means, use a " sighter " on the target. At 50 yards, you can use an old business card, stapled onto the target above your aiming point. Just put the point of the " diamond" ( created by turning the card 45 degrees) of one corner or the card so that it is right above that aiming point. When you shoot, you can move that front sight post, or blade up until it just touches the point of the diamond. This is a great help for old eyes, or for guns with wide front sights, like bayonet lugs! Aim small, Miss Small.