About carving on originals

[brazosland]

In the classifieds there is a beautiful .45 Lancaster style rifle with a knockout curly maple stock. But not a single bit of carving on the gun.

As, I suppose, are a lot of the guns us mortals might make from kits. Great wood, excellent guns, but zero carving.

I know Golden Age guns were decorated to help them stand out. But were all guns carved?

Pre Rev war, and even wartime guns, would they all have some carving? Would you see a man in the frontier with a Pennsylvania made gun that didn’t have carving from the maker?

This may not be answerable. I’m just curious if we are doing the equivalent of 23rd Century people reenacting our time and all driving Porches and Teslas.

 

[rich pierce]

In the 1980s George Shumway highlighted a plain Lancaster smooth rifle in a Muzzle Blasts article. He proposed it was a 1770s-1780s gun. If you PM me I could give you more info.

 

[Brokennock]

For many reasons I believe there was at least a little carving on most guns.
But, I would also find it hard to believe that there were no guns with no carving.

 

[CTShooter]

I would think it’s like most tools or armor /weapons we see from history.
The daily use, munition grade, common man items were not usually highly decorated and so pretty much used and disposed of or in the case of metals, probably recycled.

The ones that ended up getting preserved were the pieces made for nobles, royalty and the like, so were more decorated and considered worth saving, were stored in wealthy homes to end up in museums. We get to see beautiful pieces of history, unfortunately the more simple just got lost in time.

 

[MTCossack]

In Gunsmiths of York County there are a few guns from the early 1800s with no carving at all. Some still have patch boxes, but not all. Later percussion era long rifles were more likely to have no carving, but more likely to have metal decorative inlays.

 

[dave951]

I would think it's a lot like cars today. Some folks can't leave well enough alone and others prefer bone stock. So carving would fall into a highly personal choice of the owner.

 

[Rod Man]

I think affordability was a consideration as well.

RM

 

[brazosland]

I think affordability was a consideration as well.

RM

I absolutely agree, but my question is about whether the gun builders would even consider making a gun without at least some carving.

The same way we would not consider wearing a tshirt into an office work environment…it’s less expensive, more comfortable and doesn’t effect the work I do…but you just don’t do it.

 

[lexington1]

Here are two Andrew Figthorn rifles. One is relief carved and engraved throughout. The other is plain.

 

[brazosland]

What an awesome comparison! Are either dated?

 

[rich pierce]

Carving is so easy for a trained gunsmith that adding a bit around the tang and behind the cheekpiece and around the comb, and lock panels, would be an hour’s work. More complex or elegant carving might take a half day but no more. But, there are a few 1770-1790 rifles with no carving. Of course later on, carving disappeared and multiple inlays became fashionable.

 

[brazosland]

That easy? Had no idea. That changes things.

 

[lexington1]

What an awesome comparison! Are either dated?

No, I wish they were.

 

[rich pierce]

That easy? Had no idea. That changes things.

I’m referring to a colonial or Federal period smith trained from a young age. Not today’s makers.

 

[dave951]

One other thing to consider here, just as today, a carved and decorated gun will be a high value item and treated as such. Plain working guns were used till they were pretty much trash and discarded. I think that would skew the numbers to make it appear the decorated guns were most common.

 

[rich pierce]

Lots of plain rifles survived in Berks County and surrounds. So many that Chuck Dixon applied/coined the phrase “schimmel” to describe them. Same story with plain Tennessee and North Carolina rifles made at the same time as more decorated rifles in the same states. Truckloads of plain longrifles survived.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Lots of plain rifles survived in Berks County and surrounds. So many that Chuck Dixon applied/coined the phrase “schimmel” to describe them.

Interesting ... I always thought the term went waaaaaay back to the 19th century or earlier. And I though that it would be either a Dutch or German word, but in both languages it literally translates as 'mould'.

But ... I guess that could mean or be like "dropped from a mold", i.e., as in plain or naked?

 

[John Strong]

Here are two Andrew Figthorn rifles. One is relief carved and engraved throughout. The other is plain. View attachment 139048
[/QUOTE
That is a great example

 

[rich pierce]

Interesting ... I always thought the term went waaaaaay back to the 19th century or earlier. And I though that it would be either a Dutch or German word, but in both languages it literally translates as 'mould'.

But ... I guess that could mean or be like "dropped from a mold", i.e., as in plain or naked?

Chuck was only new in applying it to rifles as though it denoted a particular type, as opposed to condition.

 

[oldwood]

When the Lancaster gun builders were making longrifles for military contracts to arm wartime rifle corps. , guaranteed those guns were "lock , stock , and barrel models , and would be made very serviceable , but no frills.