Advice for a first time builder

[Aargow]

I’m new to the forum and have been spending most of my time here in the Bench or looking through search results. Thanks for all the informative posts. I have learned a great deal.

I built a DGW percussion long rifle about 40 years ago. I was in my early teens and a machinist/gunsmith Uncle helped”¦a lot! Discounting that, I’m looking for some advice on my ”˜first’ build.

Style is not much of a factor. I think that any full-stock flintlock is beautiful. So, I would be just as happy with a fowler, Bess, Jaeger, or just about anything else up to the percussion period”¦including a pistol.

Knowing that I’m not likely to be brave enough to try any carving or engraving, I think it would be best to go with a gun that historically would not have had much in the way of decoration. So far, I’m thinking about two Chamber’s guns - Pennsylvania Fowler or American Flintlock Pistol; or one from Track - the Classic Golden Age Longrifle.

Any advice would be appreciated. Am I on the right track? Whether you have built many or only one, if you were starting over, what would be your first project?

Thanks!

Paul

 

[galamb]

The fowler could be fairly plain.

The Golden Age rifle would have been at the height of carving/decoration.

Do you have an actual use for the gun/rifle or is it more just about building one?

That may help narrow down what you should build.

 

[Aargow]

That's a good question. It would spend most of it's time hanging on the wall and a little time plinking at the range. No target shooting and I don't plan to hunt with it.

 

[longcruise]

One good first step would be to purchase the book advertised on the right margin of this page, The Gunsmith of Grenville County. There are several other excellent books as well.

 

[Col. Batguano]

A trade gun like a Leman is a pretty simple gun. the most important part of any build is getting the architecture right, and understanding the process.

Each part of the build is its' own animal, and separate sub-project. carving and engraving don't take place until most all of the basic rifle has already taken place.

Since this is your first build, it probably makes the most sense to start with a pre-carve, from a parts set and a guy like Tip Curtis, or Pecatonica.

 

[Dane]

Aargow,
Go with any Chqmbers kit..... But know that these are not snap together kits, but a bunch of components you need to fit together.
Chambers guns are historically accurate, and 90% inlet. You will find that lesser kits are mor like 70%.
If you do your part....it will make a fine historically correct gun.
Realize that the fowler is just that.... A smoothbore, not a rifle.
Take your time, measure twice, cut once!

 

[Aargow]

Thanks. I'll pick up a copy of that book. I'm reading Recreating the American Longrifle now. Great book.

 

[Aargow]

Dane and Col. B, thanks.
I understand that Tip Curtis no longer has a catalogue but I will try to find out more about his products.
Chambers is a little more expensive than Track. I assume that equates to a little more complete kit. A little more complete might be the better choice while the backs of my ears are still drying. :grin:

 

[Staggerwing]

One more book to by, Aargow, The Art of Building The Pennsylvania Longrifle. I read all three of those books. The complement each other well.
As a second build I have ordered a Chambers Pennsylvania Fowler. I called Jim Chambers and asked about special ordering a stock that had not been inlet at all because I wanted to do more of it myself. He wasn't overly excited about doing that. He assured me that, while his stocks are inlet, they are undersized and require a fair amount of work to finish. I have heard nothing but good things about any Chambers kit and the end product is beautiful and only increases in value if done properly. I chose the fowler because my first build is a percussion rifle. I am a turkey hunter so I really would like to have a smoothbore flintlock to hunt turkeys with.

 

[Birddog6]

The FIRST thing ya should do is go & Shoulder a bunch of dif. styles with dif. barrels. Then you will have a better idea of what actually FITS you.

Looks mean nothing if it is uncomfortable to shoot.

Keith Lisle

 

[kaintuck]

Along with Keith's advice, the Penn flintlock would be my choice for my first, IF I could choose again.
These guns fit 90% of folks...., and they look cool hanging up!
I can recommend the following companies, not in any order, as they all are equally good....
Barbie chambers, Dave keck, dunlaps wood, tip Curtis.

These are the only 4 people I would buy from sight unseen .....these folks will " make it good" if you aren't satisfied.
You will spend 1000.00 on a quality gun, or 700.00 on a parts set, with a varied result......
There may others out there that sell kits, but over the years, there is a handful of people I know, that I would write a check to, and know, the purchase will be there! :hatsoff:

Welcome to the madness......I start with one years back....now I am beginning to "collect" parts for builds that will a year away! :youcrazy:

Just do it.....you'll have something that can be handed down for generations!
Marc

 

[54ball]

Here is a simple and period correct gun kit.
Link Clay Smith Type G

 

[BigBoreBLR]

Depending on where you live in Ohio, you may be closeto dixons muzzleloading shop in Kempton PA. It also close to Cabelas too.

Chuck Dixon wrote the book, the art of building the PA longrifle. His sop is the cheapest place for that book.

If you like the track build, then go for it. Whatever you feel uncomfortable working on, they usually will do that portion for a small extra fee.

You need good small chisels, a larger exacto knife, some larger good files, and a good hacksaw blade and triangular file for cutting dovetails for the barrel mounts and sights.

From extremely limited personal experience, if your doing a straight walled barrel I'd pick a 36".



Also, you plan on building more rifles possibly, or just want one that you were involved with. Do you want to learn how to build a stock from scratch, inlet the parts into the wood, cut the sights, and so on.

Or, do you want something that you fine tune the wood fit for the parts if they need them. Then finish the metal and wood surfaces to your liking.

Feel free to play around a bit with some chisels on a piece of maple and get a bit of experience.

Maybe some nice carved rifle wall mounts, a wall mount for a set of antlers, or a shooting rest for the range.

You can dovetail sights of the same style on an old 22. Makes a great compliment for additional quick practice with iron sights without any rifle clean-up.

 

[Spikebuck]

That's a good question. It would spend most of it's time hanging on the wall and a little time plinking at the range. No target shooting and I don't plan to hunt with it.

If I were only going to occasionally plink and not hunt, I wouldn't go with a fowler since they are generally larger caliber. I'd go with a smaller caliber, simple rifle in .40 or .45 caliber. Something like Track's Southern Mountain rifles, or Chambers has a nice Early York in .50 cal.

I have only purchased from Track of the Wolf and Chambers for kits. No doubt that Chambers kits are more "complete" that ToW's. ToW's will turn out just fine, but will take more labor time. I think an advantage of the ToW is you are forced to learn a little more about "real" building basics.

Only you can determine what your goals and priorities are and the value of your time vs money. Best wishes for whatever you choose. Besides the books, I'd recommend Jim Turpin's DVD.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/303/1/DVD-BML?PageSize=100

 

[Aargow]

In response to a couple of replies:

Good point about building a gun that fits. I’ve had the pleasure of holding a few originals. Most are too small. The book that I am reading provides some very good fit calculations.

Thanks for the different kit retailer and book/DVD recommendations. There are a lot more choices than I thought. For kits, Tip Curtis’s name keeps coming up. I may need to take a road trip!

I’m close to PA and spend a lot of time there with family but Kempton is pretty far.

Regarding future plans; I think that life has a way of telling you what comes next. I’m at a point when spare time is increasing and spare money is not. So, for this endeavor to be sustainable, these more expensive kits will need to be introductory. Completing a gun from a stock blank and parts is a goal, but for now I’ll be happy to work my way through a not-too-overwhelming first build.

I sure appreciate the insight that you folks have provided. I feel like I’m better equipped to make a decision today than I was two days ago. Thanks!

 

[jamesthomas]

You will not be disappointed if you make a trip to Tip Curtis's place. Also for Kit Builds Builds you can give TVM Located in Corinth Miss. a call, They have several kits available, but get one without the ramrod drilled.

 

[Spikebuck]

but get one without the ramrod drilled.

Curious as to why you recommend not having the ramrod drilled. This is generally a critical procedure and requires a long special bit.

 

[Aargow]

Thanks Arm but you've got me scratching my bean :hmm: Why is it better to get one without the ramrod hole drilled?

 

[kaintuck]

TVM uses the method of routing the last part of the RR "hole"....this routing is thru the barrel channel......so have them route the channel under the forstock,then stop.
Just make a long bit to DRILL the hole into the stock~a spade bit made from a steel rod works just fine, 1/2" at a time, clear the bits out, then another 1/2"....I make these from different sizes of steel rod, lay it into the channel under the forestock....works fine.
marc

 

[Billnpatti]

First of all, you want a stock that is at least 90% inlet. You want to have the stock shaped, the barrel channel cut and the ramrod hole drilled as a minimum. You may also want to have the lock mortise and trigger mortise cut. These are things that are not for the beginner and would, in all likelihood cause you to ruin a beautiful piece of wood. Let the kit maker do these things for you. The rest is challenging enough but something a beginner can do.

No matter which gun you pick, in all likelihood there were originals of it that were left undecorated simply because the owner could not afford to spend money on decoration. Most rifles were considered necessary "tools". Only the more wealthy could afford to pay for the man hours of work needed to turn out a fancy gun as opposed to the average person who just needed a rifle to put meat on the table. You don't see as many of these Plain Jane rifles simply because when they were replaced by cartridge guns, they were often stuck away in an attic or barn and forgotten. They just rusted away or were gnawed up by rats and if found later the remains were tossed. It is a shame. The more ornately carved and decorated rifles survived because they were attractive pieces of art and a lot of money had been spent on them.

So, it is safe to say that no matter which rifle you pick, it will be historically correct to make a plain version of it. Besides, it is your rifle and you can make it anyway you want. As much or as little decoration as you want and it will still be historically correct.