All of this misinformation is really getting old

[Shotgunblast]

Would have to be 14.5g from 14.5mm. 1g =0.04oz. Would work out to 58. Makes for almost a better first load.

 

[Erwan]

Would have to be 14.5g from 14.5mm. 1g =0.04oz. Would work out to 58. Makes for almost a better first load.

I'm sorry but I don't understand the meaning of this answer, so I'll tell you what I already said knowing that millimeters are of no use to me: all the tools we have here in France (Lyman, RCBS, LEE etc., molds and various tools) are in fractions of an inch and in grains not in grams or millimeters : French metrics tools don't exist....
If you want to calculate in millimeters and grams I wish you a lot of fun, in any case I wouldn't bother with conversions and decimals....

For the way to calculate a base load according to my great-grandfather and grandfather's method (and the one I'm still using for the 64 years I've been shooting) the approximate load calculated according to the caliber multiplied by its value in grams of black powder would be a nonsense, but multiplying the caliber by its value in grains would be a good starting point of 58 grains which would be more logical and simple, but if you insist on having the value in grams of black powder you'll get ~3.76 grams (rounding off the decimals) of powder, which seems fine enough for a starting load before refining and adjusting for that caliber and RB but not for Miniés bullets...

This seems correct to me, but others will have other opinions and will certainly give a different base weight of powder or volume to refine either to decrease (this is generally the case) or to increase.
They certainly use other methods with a slightly different result...

 

[TFoley]

millimeters are of no use to me: all the tools we have here in France (Lyman, RCBS, LEE etc., molds and various tools) are in fractions of an inch and in grains not in grams or millimeters : French metrics tools don't exist....
If you want to calculate in millimeters and grams I wish you a lot of fun, in any case I wouldn't bother with conversions and decimals....

Ah, you are talking about RELOADING tools. Well, naturally they are in imperial dimensions - as far as I know, nobody in the world except the US and, very rarely, the UK, has EVER made reloading dies for amateur use.

 

[hanshi]

I think "Seasoning" the bore may have come from the old days when barrels were made from Iron and not Steel. But it still makes me wonder.... They make PTFE (Teflon) additives for your engine. The idea being that it will permeat the steel and reduce friction. I haven't seen any documentation that it actually works but it's a great theory.

The last time I checked, most steel likes petroleum.

I think it more likely came from T/C.

 

[Erwan]

Ah, you are talking about RELOADING tools. Well, naturally they are in imperial dimensions - as far as I know, nobody in the world except the US and, very rarely, the UK, has EVER made reloading dies for amateur use.

For several days now, it's the same refrain, I'm sorry to have to tell you and other people this but let go of me with all your remarks about millimeters and grams at each of my answers, it's not even funny anymore.
You tire me more than the most elementary politeness allows: go find a simple millimeter size mold in France, buy it and have fun with it........
I don't talk about reloading tools (for professionals or not) since I never reload: I don't like (I hate) metal cartridge guns and never use that.
If I liked these weapons and this practice I would not be here, on this forum....

 

[LME]

Real gunsmiths in the UK hate wd40. It rots wood quicker than anything. You've been warned!

Oil, when over used has messed up many weapons. It doesn't have to be washed in it. With that said my ML rifles get a good dose of it but is cleaned out before using.

 

[Wildrangeringreen]

some of you guys and your superstitions lol; to the general shooting public, we here practice the dark-arts, even more so in the eyes of the general citizenry. No need to go adding mysticism to BP shooting to make it seem even more like arcane magic lol.

Way too much stuff in this scene is taken on blind faith, rather than being thought through using research and logic.

 

[ML48]

Ya gotta buy lead balls or make your own don'tcha.............? Lead costs money.

Lead=$1.00/lb Gold = $32,000/lb.....hence....I'll buy lead and he turns it to gold....got it?

 

[kje54]

Lead=$1.00/lb Gold = $32,000/lb.....hence....I'll buy lead and he turns it to gold....got it?

Nope, I can only do it the other way around......... Besides, it was a metaphor........ Got it?

 

[dave951]

some of you guys and your superstitions lol; to the general shooting public, we here practice the dark-arts, even more so in the eyes of the general citizenry. No need to go adding mysticism to BP shooting to make it seem even more like arcane magic lol.

Way too much stuff in this scene is taken on blind faith, rather than being thought through using research and logic.

Using research, thought and logic, what a novel idea. Whooda thunk it!?

Yeah, there's lots and lot of insane garbage floating around in the shooting world and in black powder, well that's crazy Uncle Earl who's been kept locked in a closet for years.

 

[George]

Using research, thought and logic, what a novel idea.

Zonie, are you going to allow such talk to go unpunished? This is supposed to be a family list, after all.

Spence

 

[Crow-Feather]

Speaking with one of my customers the other day about black powder hunting and told him I just picked up a .54 Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken. He starts in with "why a 54? You only need a 45!" and then goes into "make sure you season the bore, you can't use any oils in the bore, use boiling hot water to clean it, that gun will kick like a mule", on and on. Every time I tried to explain why that is all myths and old wives tales, he gets very defensive and tells me he has been shooting black powder over 20 years. I told him I have been shooting BP since I was 16, I'm 54 now and have learned very much about it. He seemed to calm down. Then he tells me "your best load will be to put the ball in your palm and cover it with powder. Whatever that weight of powder is, just keep shooting that weight". I almost laughed in his face. I asked him if he ever heard of working up a load for a gun. He says "Oh yah, I do it all the time!". I said "OK, I need to go to lunch now." I've never seen so much misunderstanding in any topic. Yes, it's probably inexperienced shooters but the sayings get passed around so much they become convoluted. It's hard to take when they want to argue the point because they believe it so much.

There are some people that don't get to discuss their firearm knowledge (?) with most people in their social circle. Thus they join forums or visit gun shops. It gives some of them a feeling of belonging. I worked at a gun shop for just a short while and met some of these people. I knew that my correcting their statements would be met with either embarrassment or anger from many of these people. So I listened and nodded and gave them a few minutes of happiness.

 

[rchas]

My main takeaway from this thread is that shooters get very, perhaps overly, invested in their own cleaning/lubing/patching methods. Those methods can't be challenged without someone taking offense.

I have tried every oil, wax, grease out there, "natural" or not, commercial or not over the last 40 years. I have come up with my own methods and concoctions--- and I'm not going to tell you about them. Not because they're secret or superior but because it makes no difference.

If whatever cleaning/lube/patching method you use keeps your firearm accurate and corrosion free, great! Just don't use them as a 2x4 to beat over my head if I disagree.
Frankly, I'd rather be out on the range having fun.

 

[mushka]

Logic? What in the world would logic have to do with anything here?

 

[bigstick6017555]

Logic? What in the world would logic have to do with anything here?

You just might have a very good point there

 

[RAEDWALD]

Petroleum products are bad for black powder guns. Neither true nor untrue.
Involving far more chemistry than is in my job description, but it depends upon the length of the chains of molecules (already oversimplified) such that mineral oils can leave a tarry residue which will build up and need very special treatment to remove whereas paraffin wax is a quite useable wax to use as a bullet lube (fouling controller).

As a simple rule of thumb for those who, like me, are hard of thinking. Using animal or vegetable fats for guns is a fail safe option. Unless you have the knowledge to differ. Rules are for the obedience of of fools (I hold up my hand) and the guidance of wise men.

You learn a lot when you investigate the reasoning. Captain Wild invented a new muzzle loading system for rifles which involved a squirt device to squirt a measured drop of water down the barrel after the patched ball was loaded. Used by certain southern German states. He specified the patch be linen. Did he just mean a cloth patch or was linen crucial to the system?

 

[Jim Wag]

This
Back and forth would
End
If we all accepted the
Superiority of
Panther piss

Jim in La Luz

 

[SDSmlf]

This
Back and forth would
End
If we all accepted the
Superiority of
Panther piss

Jim in La Luz

This stuff?

 

[Crow-Feather]

Yes

I know and I'm not angry. This whole thread was about, truths myths, rumors and hearsay. Opinions without facts are just that. Nuf said!

Walt

Yes, Nuff said, except for one more little thing. Mother nature. Fog, rain, humidity, and other natural factors really do affect the bare metal of barrels. I feel sorry for those who live in high humidity areas. So much water in the air. I believe that 20% humidity in my area really helps keep rust out of my bores.

 

[dave951]

I have it on good authority that the best shooting muzzleloading rifle uses real black powder whose saltpeter is made from the pee pots of vestal virgins, the sulfer harvested fresh from the vent of an active volcano and charcoal from the briquets in a mesquite smoker. The bullets are cast only during a full moon in a pot blessed by a Voodoo shaman and sprinkled with the blood from a freshly sacrificed yellow bellied bald head snipe as it was shape shifting into a chupacabra. The best patches are woven from the pure underarm hair of an albino bigfoot.