Alternate Hawken options

[Kansas Jake]

I like Walkingeagle's idea. A local pawn shop has a kit built Renagae right now for less than $300. I didn't inspect the barrel, but it looks good for the first inch or so. It is used, but not beat up.

 

[arcticap]

I carry my rifle using a rifle "butt buddy" or "butt holster".
The gun's butt is placed in the pouch and can be held upright with one hand.
It helps to make carrying a heavier gun a breeze.
It also helps a lot while maneuvering through brush since the gun can be tilted forward, left or right.
I don't carry such a long barreled gun, but it still goes a long way toward reducing the fatigue of carrying any rifle.
Even a Renegade can be heavy to carry after a while.
I bought mine at Cabela's but they're long discontinued.
However they can be found for sale used on eBay where I obtained the photos below.

 

[MDHunter]

I carry my rifle using a rifle "butt buddy" or "butt holster" under Butt Buddy.
The gun's butt is placed in the pouch and can be held upright with one hand.
It helps to make carrying a heavier gun a breeze.
It also helps a lot while maneuvering through brush since the gun can be tilted forward, left or right.
I don't carry such a long barreled gun, but it still goes a long way toward reducing the fatigue of carrying any rifle.
Even a Renegade can be heavy to carry after a while.
I bought mine at Cabela's but they're long discontinued.
However they can be found for sale used on eBay where I obtained the photos below.

View attachment 8402 View attachment 8403 View attachment 8405 View attachment 8406

Hey thanks that certainly would help

 

[arcticap]

If you do end up getting one, you'll need a heavy belt dedicated to support it which is worn on the outside of a jacket.
You'll find a comfortable spot to keep it somewhere close to the belly area, and it also allows for switching hands while using the other hand to hold back brush & branches.
Even for turning backwards when needing to at times.
The belt can also be used for other utilities such as for a hunter's seat cushion, a folding stool or whatever else that doesn't fit into a possibles bag.
And your arms won't be as tired when you do end up needing to making that first shot count.
Yet the gun remains accessible for a quick shot, moreso than if using a sling.

 

[SDSmlf]

Cutting down the barrel length is something that any machinist with a lathe and a four jaw chuck can do for you. You just need to tell him the barrel length you want. Would require recutting for front sight and altering underbarrel rib. And if you really want to maximize weight reduction, also consider reboring to a larger caliber, 58 for example. Going from 54 to 58 caliber saves about .34 pounds with your 34” barrel. Coupled with a length reduction you may have something to think about. You could call Bobby Hoyt and request him to rebore and reduce length. You pick the twist rate. Rebore will cost about $140 and doubt length reduction will add much to the cost. Something to consider.

As a real world example, have a 45 TC Hawken flint with a 15/16” barrel that is 28” long. Weighs in at 8.6 pounds. Also have a TC Hawken flint that has a 1” barrel that is 26” long. It has been rebored to 58 caliber with 1-60 twist. Weighs in right at 8 pounds. Can load 58 with enough powder to start to reduce the fun factor, but when you want to stop something right here right now, you are good to go.

 

[F.G. Ford]

Hi,
Shop around for a Thompson Center New Englander, it was made in .50, .54 and 20 gauge
It is light, get all three barrels, and you will have the best of all in a light and quick gun.
Fred

 

[BlackHillsBob]

if your going to make a fast twist, yes, they make good ones. dont do a 1/28 twist, if it is a fast twist 50 do a 1/32 or even a 1/36. i have a douglas barrel 50 cal in 1/32 twist. shoots paperpatch 550 grain or a sabot using a 300 grain .451 bullet or one of those copper hollow based modern bullets it keeps one hole touching at 100 yards. even with heavy charges. i dont mean 150 grains of powder but sensible heavy like 100 or 110 grains. the 1/28 is too fast and takes too big a bullet to make them really talk. remember a 50/90 sharps using a 1/27 to 1/28 twist shoots a 600 to 700 grain bullet. thats why the 1/32 or 1/36 will shoot lighter bullets real well. ordering a barrel from douglas will cost more with the barrel and then to shape and such cost alot also. how ever if money is no object as i saved and saved, i did it twice. a douglas barrel with the right twist for your caliber will shoot like a shooters dream. ive never had but very good barrels from the oregon rifle barrel co.

 

[nkbj]

I love finding neglected pieces.
The .54 Renegade is the modern analog to a jaeger hunter rifle.
A .50 Renegade is a fine opportunity to make something special for yourself.

 

[MDHunter]

I love finding neglected pieces.
The .54 Renegade is the modern analog to a jaeger hunter rifle.
A .50 Renegade is a fine opportunity to make something special for yourself.

I've bought a couple of neglected TC Hawkens and have cleaned them up quite a bit. At this time I just have more of a draw to the more authentic looking Hawkens. I think in the future I will definitely have one of the barrels redone to a 54 and strip the brass furniture so I can blue it.

 

[Mad Professor]

A lyman/cabelas/investarm in 58 cal is quite light. Not sure if the still make them new?

 

[Prairieofthedog]

A lyman/cabelas/investarm in 58 cal is quite light. Not sure if the still make them new?

They don't make the .58 anymore but,those rifles are pretty handy to carry with that big hole in that 15/16" barrel.

 

[Rat]

I've always found that weight, not length, is what makes the gun "handy". If brush is so thick that length makes a difference, one might want to get out of the brush! My 1861 is one long drink of water, (40-41" barrel) which has never annoyed me. I can thread my way through thick stuff with it just fine. But the 10 pound weight does discourage me from taking it out sometimes. Ten pounds is getting up there. Nine isn't so bad. (one pound can "seem" like a lot of difference) I like long guns right in the 8.25 pound range, which both my Jeager, and Brown Bess carbine are. 34" is not a long barrel. On the other hand, a 30" barrel is not a stubby barrel.

I understand that if one really likes the rifle, some modifications and cost might make more sense rather than just getting another rifle, and letting that one gather dust. It sounds like a very nice rifle. I would not hesitate to make it more to your liking, as long as you think it out well, which obviously you are doing.

If you are going to cut it down at all, I'd take at least 4" (or 3&15/16ths) even if it just "seems" lighter, the psychological effect might make it more pleasant to pack around. Reducing muzzle weight will certainly make it "seem" lighter.

I really like the idea of both taking off 4", and boring the rifle to .58". That...will make a difference. The cost would be more than worth it to make a rifle that you really like, into something you really love, and love to use. Having the barrel cut, bored, and rifled all in one shot might even save a buck or two. Do it.

 

[MDHunter]

I've always found that weight, not length, is what makes the gun "handy". If brush is so thick that length makes a difference, one might want to get out of the brush! My 1861 is one long drink of water, (40-41" barrel) which has never annoyed me. I can thread my way through thick stuff with it just fine. But the 10 pound weight does discourage me from taking it out sometimes. Ten pounds is getting up there. Nine isn't so bad. (one pound can "seem" like a lot of difference) I like long guns right in the 8.25 pound range, which both my Jeager, and Brown Bess carbine are. 34" is not a long barrel. On the other hand, a 30" barrel is not a stubby barrel.

I understand that if one really likes the rifle, some modifications and cost might make more sense rather than just getting another rifle, and letting that one gather dust. It sounds like a very nice rifle. I would not hesitate to make it more to your liking, as long as you think it out well, which obviously you are doing.

If you are going to cut it down at all, I'd take at least 4" (or 3&15/16ths) even if it just "seems" lighter, the psychological effect might make it more pleasant to pack around. Reducing muzzle weight will certainly make it "seem" lighter.

I really like the idea of both taking off 4", and boring the rifle to .58". That...will make a difference. The cost would be more than worth it to make a rifle that you really like, into something you really love, and love to use. Having the barrel cut, bored, and rifled all in one shot might even save a buck or two. Do it.

You hit nail on the head with much of your post except getting out of the brush lol That’s where the elk are ! Early September at 11000 feet can still be warm and they love the dark timber full of blow downs. If I can’t call them out I have to go in. Your paragraph about the psychological affect is exactly right.
I’m really torn on cutting that barrel but as a previous poster said most guns back in the day were custom so why not make mine fit what I need. Or I can just MAN up and carry my gun as is !

 

[jrmflintlock]

I second what Rat said!!!

Robert Hoyt can do all of that for about $200 round trip!

 

[Rat]

You hit nail on the head with much of your post except getting out of the brush lol That’s where the elk are ! Early September at 11000 feet can still be warm and they love the dark timber full of blow downs. If I can’t call them out I have to go in. Your paragraph about the psychological affect is exactly right.
I’m really torn on cutting that barrel but as a previous poster said most guns back in the day were custom so why not make mine fit what I need. Or I can just MAN up and carry my gun as is !

I have an original long rifle that was cut shorter "back in the day", when it was actually in use as a working rifle, to better suit the owner for use on horse back. Well, I will still say that weight, more than length, will make it more difficult to negotiate the dark timber and blow-downs. I think that if you were contemplating cutting a 30" barrel down to 26", that would be a whole other issue. But again, a 30" barrel is not exactly a stubby one. 30" is a nice length.

Now one can just man-up, but I find I hunt better when I minimize fatigue. ? Or: less rifle weight, more water, snacks, or other essential gear.

 

[SDSmlf]

Cutting down the barrel length is something that any machinist with a lathe and a four jaw chuck can do for you. You just need to tell him the barrel length you want. Would require recutting for front sight and altering underbarrel rib. And if you really want to maximize weight reduction, also consider reboring to a larger caliber, 58 for example. Going from 54 to 58 caliber saves about .34 pounds with your 34” barrel. Coupled with a length reduction you may have something to think about. You could call Bobby Hoyt and request him to rebore and reduce length. You pick the twist rate. Rebore will cost about $140 and doubt length reduction will add much to the cost. Something to consider.

As a real world example, have a 45 TC Hawken flint with a 15/16” barrel that is 28” long. Weighs in at 8.6 pounds. Also have a TC Hawken flint that has a 1” barrel that is 26” long. It has been rebored to a 58 caliber with 1-60 twist. Weighs in right at 8 pounds. Can load 58 with enough powder to start to reduce the fun factor, but when you want to stop something right here right now, you are good to go.

While not HC, I have come to love the TC Hawkens/Renegade platform. At the Renegade barrel length of 26” it is fairly easy to get 1500 to 1600 FPS with a 58 caliber round ball. At 1500 FPS sighted in at 90 yards I am less than 3” high at 50 yards and less than 2” low at 100 yards. A perfect brush gun in my opinion.

If I were truly ‘in love’ with a Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken but wanted something shorter or handier, it would be time for a haircut. 24” to 26” for a new barrel length bored out to 58 caliber. $140 plus whatever nominal fee Bobby Hoyt wanted to cut down the barrel.

What are yo waiting for?

 

[Rat]

Hey...what about .62"? There's a lot to like about that caliber. I like my .58's, but I like my .62" just a little better. Not that there's that much difference...but maybe a couple more ounces? Is this PRMH 1" across the flats? Or 15/16th's? Blow downs and dark timber, and elk, that does sound like .58" or .62" territory.

 

[SDSmlf]

Hey...what about .62"? There's a lot to like about that caliber. I like my .58's, but I like my .62" just a little better. Not that there's that much difference...but maybe a couple more ounces? Is this PRMH 1" across the flats? Or 15/16th's? Blow downs and dark timber, and elk, that does sound like .58" or .62" territory.

When I talked to Bobby Hoyt about rebore options, he said a 1” wide barrel could go to 58 rifled or a 60 smooth bore, depending on depth of screw holes and dovetails already cut in the barrel. From what I have seen, the Pedersoli Hawkens have 1” barrels, and would not be a good candidate for a 62 caliber rifled rebore, although I have not measured one or seen a factory spec to confirm barrel width.

 

[Rat]

Then .580" it is. Fire up the boring bar!!! Oh oh...hope he can get my '63 Remington Contract Rifle (replica) out to .62". It has a "lumpy" bore, and something needs to be done.

 

[MDHunter]

I’m thinking I’m going to see if Mr Hoyt can rebore my .50 tc to a .54 in a faster twist. My last 2 bulls were shot at 111 and 130 yds so I do feel I should stick with conicals. The one at 130 yds dropped in his tracks with .460 No Excuse. Then If I keep the Pedersoli the same or cut it down to 30 inches I can rotate guns depending on terrain or difficulty of that days hunt. Keeping them both .54 will help with organizing bullets and accessories ect.