Alternate Hawken options
- Thread starter MDHunter
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
I say cut the rifle down to just a few inches in front of the rearmost ramrod pipe. Should make for something like a 20” barrel.
Such guns were called “canoe guns” back in the old times and you give up no major velocity or energy loses. Could still be used to hunt up to moose sized game out to 75 yards with a stout charge and a .535.
I assure you it would be handy enough and lightweight them! Robert Hoyt can easil do this for you.
Such guns were called “canoe guns” back in the old times and you give up no major velocity or energy loses. Could still be used to hunt up to moose sized game out to 75 yards with a stout charge and a .535.
I assure you it would be handy enough and lightweight them! Robert Hoyt can easil do this for you.
Walkingeagle
54 Cal.
I’ve seen videos of a fellow hunting high in the mountains with a cut down TC (I believe it was) Hawken to around that 20” or 22” mark. Didn’t appear his elk noticed any velocity change!!
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2019
- Messages
- 89
- Reaction score
- 158
arcticap
54 Cal.
With the relatively heavy weights of some of the more popular guns, I'm surprised that more mountain hunters don't select a more light weight model like the Traditions .50 Deerhunter.
Having a 24" barrel, depending on a synthetic or wood stock, it's listed as only weighing 6 - 6.5 lbs, and most consider them to be good shooters with its 1 in 48" twist.
And then there's always the Traditions Kentucky .50 rifle that weighs 7 lbs. with a 1 in 66" twist and 33.5" barrel.
Even the Traditions Frontier .50 rifle is only listed as being 7 lbs. with a 1 in 48" and 28" barrel.
I think that it's mostly because so many people are like Popeye and always eat their spinach!
Having a 24" barrel, depending on a synthetic or wood stock, it's listed as only weighing 6 - 6.5 lbs, and most consider them to be good shooters with its 1 in 48" twist.
And then there's always the Traditions Kentucky .50 rifle that weighs 7 lbs. with a 1 in 66" twist and 33.5" barrel.
Even the Traditions Frontier .50 rifle is only listed as being 7 lbs. with a 1 in 48" and 28" barrel.
I think that it's mostly because so many people are like Popeye and always eat their spinach!
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2019
- Messages
- 89
- Reaction score
- 158
From a practical standpoint you’re 100% right those guns would make much more sense. It’s my love of the style and the look of the Lyman great plains rifles and Pedersoli Hawken That I wish to carry them. I’m just trying to find some middle ground between 28 inch barrel and a 34With the relatively heavy weights of some of the more popular guns, I'm surprised that more mountain hunters don't select a more light weight model like the Traditions .50 Deerhunter.
Having a 24" barrel, depending on a synthetic or wood stock, it's listed as only weighing 6 - 6.5 lbs, and most consider them to be good shooters with its 1 in 48" twist.
And then there's always the Traditions Kentucky .50 rifle that weighs 7 lbs. with a 1 in 66" twist and 33.5" barrel.
Even the Traditions Frontier .50 rifle is only listed as being 7 lbs. with a 1 in 48" and 28" barrel.
I think that it's mostly because so many people are like Popeye and always eat their spinach!
arcticap
54 Cal.
As beautiful as those models are, I usually can't hold them or strain to hold them.
It's usually either their LOP or the weight.
It's usually either their LOP or the weight.
Truth be known the Hawkens rifles were meant to be mostly carried on horseback, carried by the horse. They belonged to a group called the “Plains Rifles” and they were mostlay percussion or late flint half stock guns with stout barrels and big bores, made to take down the larger western aminals.
Really they were mostly custom affairs aside from some of the bigger names so you can get all sorts of barrel lengths. The Pedersoli Hawken is based off the J&S St. Louis Hawkens and those were all bespoke rifles. My $0.02? Do as the others have suggested and get the gun over to Bobby Hoyt. He will get it cut down for you and give it a dandy crown job and new sight.
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2019
- Messages
- 89
- Reaction score
- 158
What’s the best way to get ahold of him ? I’ve read plenty of posts here he can be hard to reach.
Confirm his address when you get hold of him by phone. He has no email or web site. If he doesn’t answer when you call, it means he is busy on a machine. Keep calling. Great guy to deal with.
Robert Hoyt
Freischutz Shop,
2379 Mt. Hope Road., Fairfield, Pa. 17320.
717-642-6696
Robert Hoyt
Freischutz Shop,
2379 Mt. Hope Road., Fairfield, Pa. 17320.
717-642-6696
Just cleaned this one up - had it out today. A Bobby Hoyt rebore of a 26” Renegade barrel. Radius rifling, 1-60 twist. Setup weighs in right at 8 pounds. Working on getting a sight picture that works. Trying to avoid a peep sight. Believe it has something to do with me being another older every spring.
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2018
- Messages
- 326
- Reaction score
- 124
.460.…. what .460 ? That elk should have died merely knowing you were in the woods with that gun...…..
I have a .58 cap lock Investarms deluxe Hawken for sale, as long as you don't mind the lock is on the left side
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2019
- Messages
- 89
- Reaction score
- 158
Lol now that’s funny! My bad on the period. 460 grain conicals called No Excuse bullets. A friend of mine was 50 yds behind me and could still hear it hit the elk
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2019
- Messages
- 89
- Reaction score
- 158
Hmmm maybe I could learn to shoot lefty.... I can flip back and forth with my recurves from left to right
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2019
- Messages
- 89
- Reaction score
- 158
That’s something I’m considering. I wouldn’t feel as bad cutting that barrel and the stock isn’t nearly as nice as the curly maple. So it could be considered more of a workhorse type gun. Beautiful gun none the less. Besides any excuse to buy another gun is alright with me !
plmeek
40 Cal.
Smokey, my man, where do you come up with this stuff--the internet? Or are you just making it up?
What's the basis of "Hawkens [sic] rifles were meant to be mostly carried on horseback, carried by the horse."
Early trade up the Missouri river was conducted with the use of keel boats, not horses. The hunters that provided the meat for the boat crew occasionally used horses, but primarily hunted on foot. True, Ashley's men, the Rocky Mountain Fur Company men, and the American Fur Company men preferred horses when crossing the plains when they could get them and keep them, but the Indians regularly stole their horses and left them afoot.
The horse wasn't much good during trapping season in the mountains. The snow was often drifted and too deep for a horse to get through. Besides, there was so little feed for the horses that they barely were able to stay alive during the winter. The trappers often had to strip bark off of trees to feed their horses. The mountain men ran their trap lines primarily on foot.
William Sublette and Black Harris made at least two trips from the mountains all the way to St. Louis on foot. They left the mountains in winter, and the snow was too deep and the horses in too poor a shape to try to ride.
People traveling with caravans and wagon trains typically walked alongside the wagons. This was the case for the Santa Fe trail and the Oregon, California, and Mormon trails. Sam Hawken himself walked from St. Louis to Denver during the 1859 gold rush. He was 67 at the time.
A typical Hawken rifle weighs little more than a Lancaster trade rifle. During the rendezvous period, most Hawken rifles were full-stock and weighed the same as a trade rifle.
They [Hawken rifles] belonged to a group called the “Plains Rifles”.
"Plains Rifle" is a modern term. It was made up by collectors in the middle of the 20th century and established in our lexicon by Charles E. Hanson, Jr. with his book by that title. Sam Hawken called his rifles "mountain rifles" in his 1882 newspaper interview. Sam's son, William S., frequently ran advertisements in the newspaper for "Mountain rifles... made to order" after he took over the shop in 1855.
They were mostlay [sic] percussion or late flint half stock guns with stout barrels and big bores, made to take down the larger western aminals [sic].
I'm not sure what you are referring to as "late flint half stock guns". American made flint half stock guns are pretty rare. The English were making them, but by the time half stocks became popular in America, we were well into the percussion period.
Really they were mostly custom affairs aside from some of the bigger names so you can get all sorts of barrel lengths.
I'm not sure if you are talking about your generic "Plains Rifle" or specifically about Hawken rifles here. Surviving J&S Hawken rifles commonly have barrel lengths around 38", some as long as 42". Fashions changed over time, and generally barrels were shorter after Jacob's death. They did make some custom rifles, but records show they made rifles for large orders from AFC and from John C. Fremont that weren't necessarily custom rifles.
The Pedersoli Hawken is based off the J&S St. Louis Hawkens and those were all bespoke rifles.
The Pedersoli Hawken more closely resembles a S. Hawken rifle. It was copied from the Uberti Hawken that was copied from the Cherry Corners/Ithaca Hawken which was a generic S. Hawken rifle.
