Barrel seasoning

[coloradoclyde]

I've seasoned both cast iron and steel pans.

Same here....but I have noticed that it is not as durable on a steel pan...and is easily burnt off if you don't manage your heat properly...

 

[coloradoclyde]

Well as I said do the research and at least Jack got his part right but I was not comparing barrels and cook ware (although the process is basically the same) I was simply stating the fact that both iron and steel can be seasoned and the process only serendipitously fills in any voids in the metal. The plain and simple fact is that the late Mr. Paul got it wrong in several ways including comparing cast iron to steel when rifle barrels were not made of cast iron but rather wrought iron.
As for the word season not being applied to barrels so you say and your opinion which are like backsides we all have one, but the term is a broad one (seasoned wood, etc) and has been commonly used for this process for a long time and is easily understood by most.

As for whether seasoning a barrel is necessary or not as I stated above no it is not, but neither will it ruin a barrel as some folks claim when done right - if it did then my barrels, some 40 years old would have been ruined a long time ago.

I wasn't arguing with you per/say...
Like you said...

the term is a broad one (seasoned wood, etc)

"Seasoning" varies by material and intended use.

 

[LaBonte]

If I could treat the inside of the barrel like a pan, the coating would be removed the first time the gun was fired and cleaned. No?

Not necessarily - ever seen the varnish built up inside an engine where it gets plenty hot enough to burn it off?
Secondly if it all burned off then how did all those crappy seasoning jobs that had build up in them occur? and it really takes a lot of build up to make it too tight (BP leftovers can cause that problem for sure.

Again it's everyone's individual choice, but it's not as black and white as some say (again your opinions and IMO unless you've tried it and done it right then all you have is opinion no matter who much shooting you've done over the years and FWIW - I've been shooting BP since 1962.

Plus the above statements I first answered to above stated steel can not be seasoned which is wrong. Doesn't matter if it doesn't get as thick or as tenacious as when done on heavy cast iron, but my heavy pressed steel pans season up just fine and won't burn off any faster than in iron.

FWIW - my process for seasonging pans is to fry up taters...works great and after the first batch or two they can be eaten!

 

[hanshi]

"Seasoning" a rifle bore is the "Frankenmyth" that refuses to die. The idea is to build a "crust" inside the barrel; no benefits are usually mentioned. The crust pretty much covers over the rifling and who really wants a mostly unrifled bore?

Two ways of attempting this feat is #1 don't clean the bore. #2 soak the bore in petroleum oil and shoot the h#&% out of it. Both attempts will destroy both accuracy and barrel. Either way the bore must not be cleaned or one has to start all over.

I clean my barrels down to the metal and protect them with Barricade. A "seasoned" bore is like a sewer pipe; they're both full of, well, you know.

 

[FishDFly]

Same debate hundreds of times and the answer is always the same.

 

[azmntman]

?? well who's winning? seasoned or unseasoned ??

 

[Cowboy]

You can't season a modern muzzleloader barrel! It was TC that started that seasoning your barrel with Bore Butter manure. I was a firm believer in using that Bore Butter to season my barrels until I learned the truth about the stuff and wised up to their marketing ploy to sell you something you don,t need and could be harmful to your barrel. I now use BC Barricade in my barrels when being stored which dries and creates a thin film that keeps moisture away and protects the metal. When I take my muzzleloaders to the range I first run a couple of alcohol patches through the barrel followed by a dry patch and then Im ready for the range. Respectfully, cowboys1062.

 

[coloradoclyde]

?? well who's winning? seasoned or unseasoned ??

Unseasoned....By a landslide. :grin:

 

[Katahdin]

That was a Tongue in Cheek attempt at Humor ,,Missed it!!! Not seasoning so much as wearing the barrel in and the rough spot out/off'
My opinion, some just try to make this a Science as opposed to fun and an enjoyable past time.
And I am ok with that, what ever floats you stick. I just take my gear go to the gravel pit and shoot till I am satisfied with the results and or run out of powder and ball.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I suppose anyone still in the "seasoning" camp could perform a simple experiment. :grin:

Take your favorite well seasoned cast iron fry pan and pour 80 grains (an average run of the mill charge) of black powder in the middle of it and ignite it. Then repeat this 10 more times to simulate a minimum average number of rounds fired for a daily session at the range.
Then clean your pan as you would your gun and inspect....
P.S. don't forget to let it sit for a while before cleaning to simulate driving home....and take lots of pictures to show us... :grin:

A reverse experiment could also be done using a brand new steel pan and trying to season it by the same exact methods you would use to season your gun barrel...Shoot, clean, lube with bore butter or whatever....and watch the magic happen....
I look forward to someone's results

 

[LaBonte]

I studied the difference by using the same barrel and cut in half - one half was set up to be "seasoned" (i.e. by using the same methods and materials as those used 150+ years ago - no motor oil like or other methods like Hanshi mentioned which are the WRONG way to do it, cleaned as the frontiersman would have, etc)
The other half was cleaned using modern materials, lubes, etc.)

After 2,000 rounds (.54 calber, 75 grns 3F, bear grease on a pillow ticking patch) through each half of the barrel. I found that the "seasoned" barrel for me cleaned faster and easier and loading was the same easier and faster- a huge difference No - but enough of one for me that I used it all my rifles (12 if IIRC) after that. Accuracy has never been negatively affected and I've won my fair share of the gold over the years, but that has never been my raison d'atre fro shooting BP. My main interest has always been emulating the frontiersman of the early 1800's as closely as possible to try and share their experiences as closely as possible.

As for who's winning - why does everything like this have to be a matter of winning i.e. I'm right you're wrong? IMNSHO I do what I do and others do what they do and no need to be competitive or get contentious...

 

[coloradoclyde]

Anecdotal...Unless I missed where you defined and described your "seasoning" in scientific terms and differentiated it from the prevalent comparisons to cookware. :hmm:

Simple put, is the process you describe actual "seasoning" or are you just describing it as such for lack of a more accurate and comprehensive term.. :hmm:

The term "Seasoning" is a very broad and general term being used to describe a number of very specific changes happing to the barrel over time..

 

[Vaino]

I don't think anyone "wins" in a discussion such as this. If "seasoning" a bbl makes the "seasoner" happy, then it's a win and the ones that don't think "seasoning" is necessary, they can continue shooting w/ their "unseasoned" bbls and consider they "won". In the end....it doesn't make any difference either way.....only to the "stubborn" proponents on either side of the argument.....Fred

 

[George]

I don't think anyone "wins" in a discussion such as this.

Stephen Maturin, The Thirteen Gun Salute, by Patrick O’Brian:

“Dr Johnson said that every meeting or every conversation was a contest in which the man of superior parts was the victor. But I think he was mistaken: for that is surely wrangling or hostile debate, often self-defeating-- it is not conversation as I understand it at all, a calm, amicable interchange of opinions, news, information, reflexions, without striving for superiority.”

Spence

 

[coloradoclyde]

Aumann's agreement theorem.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Clyde,

I think it possible that a modern steel barrel could develop a layer of carbon from the heat of the ignited gun powder burning the lubricant, and this layer possibly might make the interior surface "smoother" aka "non-stick" as has happened on my steel wok...

...wait, I'm not finished, don't start laughing yet..... :haha:

BUT, I think that the way we clean our barrels prevents this, what with the soap, and water, and the scrubbing...any carbon that was beginning to build up a layer is removed. I also doubt you'd get such a layer the entire length of a rifle barrel from 28" and longer...you might get it at the breech but again, most shooters, even those who accept the idea of "seasoning" a barrel, remove the carbon with the cleaning process.

That's my S.W.A.G. on the matter, anyway.


LD

 

[coloradoclyde]

I can agree with that. :grin: I would just add that while heat is necessary for seasoning to occur...heat also removes seasoning. That's why the bottom of the fry pan that is exposed to flame will not be seasoned.
This combined with the corrosive and acidic nature of BP fouling, makes seasoning impossible...

Does loading, shooting and cleaning make a barrel smoother? I think so.....

I think we like to believe that a barrel can be seasoned because of good marketing and because we can see it on our cookware...

But the evidence for barrel seasoning ......Just doesn't exist.....unless we modify the definition of "seasoning" to support our claims...

 

[Billnpatti]

The question of whether a modern steel barrel can be seasoned has been hashed about with some people saying that can be seaasoned and others ssaying that it cannot. I come down on the side of those who say that it can't be seasoned.

To clean a barrel for the first time, I wipe it with an oil solvent. Just about any of the barrel cleaning solvents will do the job. The best way to clean a black powder barrel after shooting it is soap in warm water.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I'd like to share a story that relates to this topic.
Years back I did a lot of high powered rifle shooting 3-7 days a week.
A friend who shot with me showed up one day with a new "miracle" cleaning concoction that was supposed to coat the bore with Teflon (or something like that) and improve your accuracy.
I looked at my friend with one eye....:youcrazy:
This magic accuracy improver consisted of a white milky liquid and a stainless tornado brush to apply it...and you had to scrub the bore a certain number of times with it....
As the next couple of weeks went by......his accuracy did improve....and he swore by the magic elixir.. All the while not realizing that it was his daily practicing that had improved his shooting.....
After about a month his accuracy began to decline and never recovered with that gun...
All that scrubbing with that stainless brush and "miracle juice" had "scrubbed his barrel out" :shake:

He learned a valuable lesson about marketing and miracle cures....the hard way....

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Yes I think that even though it's cloth, pinched against the side of the barrel by lead, it may have some sort of polishing effect after many rounds are fired.

As for the modern reference, the first thing we always did for the guys who suddenly lost "accuracy" in their modern rifle was to remove the deposits from the jackets of the bullets rubbing off on the interior of the barrel. (One guy's barrel was so bad it was green with verdigris from the copper deposits). Many swore we were miracle workers for "restoring" their rifle's accuracy.

We now return to the black powder era......


LD