Black powder or Pyrodex

[Mad L]

If folk can get BP to mix with subs....why go through all the extra steps; just use BP, it ain't 2020 no more??

 

[DementedMindOfJac]

If folk can get BP to mix with subs....why go through all the extra steps; just use BP, it ain't 2020 no more??

You mean mix up BP and sub, then load the gun with the mix?
I have never heard of anyone doing it, and I don't advise it. BP is a sulphurous nitride. The chemical makeup of subs is a cellulose nitride. I don't know what that mix will do. I know some folks will load small BP charge and then the rest on top in PDX or 777. Never done that, but I heard of folks who do. Duplex loads I b'lieve they call it.
Mixing just sounds like a terrible idea. All the disadvantages of both and advantages of neither with a maybe at the end.

 

[Mad L]

You mean mix up BP and sub, then load the gun with the mix?
I have never heard of anyone doing it, and I don't advise it. BP is a sulphurous nitride. The chemical makeup of subs is a cellulose nitride. I don't know what that mix will do. I know some folks will load small BP charge and then the rest on top in PDX or 777. Never done that, but I heard of folks who do. Duplex loads I b'lieve they call it.
Mixing just sounds like a terrible idea. All the disadvantages of both and advantages of neither with a maybe at the end.

I never heard of pre-mixing it, perhaps some do.
My question was why pour BP then pull out another container and pour substitute? Seems like if you can get BP then just use it.
Like I said; it's not 2020 anymore.

I understand that BP is not available at local shops anymore (I personally never knew it to be in my nick of the woods). Maybe by pouring a little BP makes their Substitute last longer?
Yes I know during 2020 and early 2021 folks were running low on BP and trying to make it last while waiting for it to return.....well, it has returned.
I guess habits are hard to break....to me it just don't make sense, but I guess people just like to be different these days.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

for gods sake stop it already....

 

[JeffG]

Hello All,
I‘ve learned black powder is unavailable here in the Green Bay Area of Wisconsin. Retailers only carry Pyrodex and a few have Triple 7. I have less than 1/2 lb. of Goex powder left and was hoping to buy a can for deer season. I do have a pound of unopened Pyrodex that was given to me, but I’ve never shot the stuff. If I resort to using it, what recommendations does anyone have that I should keep in mind? I’ve heard rumors about accuracy. Thanks for any help you can give.

PM sent. I'll fix you up.

 

[longcruise]

Maybe by pouring a little BP makes their Substitute last longer?

It's a thing with flint shooters and some cap shooters. It's to give the advantage of BP ignition.

I agree with you on just using black but if I were needing to shoot a flint and I had only a small amount of BP but had pyrodex immediately available and time was short I'd be doing it.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

I shoot the subs in my percussion cap and save the BP for my flintlock.

 

[Mad L]

It's a thing with flint shooters and some cap shooters. It's to give the advantage of BP ignition.

I agree with you on just using black but if I were needing to shoot a flint and I had only a small amount of BP but had pyrodex immediately available and time was short I'd be doing it.

Yes, I know. I just get a kick out of everyone trying to defend it and talk others into it as if it's the new way of doing things.
BP works great in ALL my muzzleloaders and I keep my stock well fed. But good to know that should things slip I can use pretend powder while my home grown is drying....

 

[Tasbay]

I have never shot substitute powders ever. Black powder is hard to find here and the last can of Swiss I saw was $85. I just buy KNO3 and Sulpher, make my own balls and patches, I guess I`m just tight but it works and comes out at about $1 a pound. Under 2-inch groups at 50yds.

 

[Howard Pippin]

For some reason I've never tried 777 or pyrodex in my flinter, No, but I did try Jim shockley's gold and it shot with noticeable hangfire. By the time I got around to buying a flinter some 19 years ago I had already got past pyrodex and was using some black, so i had it available, and from all the stuff I read it was better so I've just never switched. All my experimenting has generally been with round ball and different patch lubes and different patches. At different times I did try Lee bullets and some of Thompson centers 320 grs, but at the amount of lead required I went back to round balls as all I generally shoot is paper or rocks hanging steel plates, or something that doesn't shoot back at me or that I have to dress. If things hold together come spring, I'm gonna go out and try 777, as I like it and I'll see how it works. I am gonna try some pyrodex just out of curiosity as I do have all kinds of powders on hand it seems like, I love experimenting as long as I can keep it safe. I do use black 4F for priming as I believe it to be quicker.
Squint

 

[user 36911]

How much is a little less than 1/2lb of Goex? You have 100 70gr loads in a pound. How much do you need to go hunting?

 

[Bad Karma]

I have never shot substitute powders ever. Black powder is hard to find here and the last can of Swiss I saw was $85. I just buy KNO3 and Sulpher, make my own balls and patches, I guess I`m just tight but it works and comes out at about $1 a pound. Under 2-inch groups at 50yds.View attachment 264669

Your powder leaves a nasty blue residue on the shooters face though…

 

[Tasbay]

Your powder leaves a nasty blue residue on the shooters face though…

Still trying to wash it off.

 

[Wisconsin Relic]

If that seriously ls your your takeaway then you are missing the reality.

I had a half container of pyrodex on the shelf for over 20 years and it worked just fine. I've shot it on target and over chronograph goex 2f and Pyrodex RS. Accuracy equal and velocity too close to matter. It is, in fact, the most economical propellant available. There are 30% more shots by equal volume compared to goex.

I get the impression that you are not a frequent shooter so jumping through the BP hoops might not be worth it to you so pyrodex is a good solution.

Sorry to contradict you, Longcruise, but I do a fair amount of shooting. I’ve just never shot Pyrodex before and was looking for some insight. Anyone reading through the replies will discern there are a lot of differing opinions about that substitute. Some like it, others don’t. To me, it seems like more respondents are not impressed with Pyrodex. So, I choose to stick with black powder, which is almost impossible to purchase without investing a few hundred dollars. I dislike having to tie up $250 going into winter and in this economy just to get a few pounds of powder. I highly applaud several members on this forum who have offered to help me out with my shortfall. Thank you!

 

[Commodore Swab]

After reading thru the pages of opinions I thought I might have something to add as the consensus is they are substitute able and it is ones option as to which they prefer. I disagree.

USPS classifies BP as a low explosive and synthetic as solid propellant. This is why you have hazmat on BP but not synthetic.

ATF does the same which is why BP must be stored in a safe but synthetic can be placed on a shelf like modern bullets.

Synthetic burns slower than BP, just lay a line of each on the ground and ignite.

 

[longcruise]

Sorry to contradict you, Longcruise, but I do a fair amount of shooting.

Sorry, didn't mean to suggest that you are a newbie. The real stuff is a good way to go. I live in a large metro area and the only place that sells BP if they have it in stock is bass pro and last I heard it was close to $40 a pound! Our club has a program where we take orders and buy from a distributor. I recently bought goex for $24.

Lived in green bay for a few years in the early '60's. Went to West High. We hunted a lot in the Navarrino wild life area.

 

[B P Maniac Shooter]

Black powder all the way for flints....
Pyrodex does work in cap guns.
This is what happens when you try substitutes in flint guns:

 

[azmntman]

Pyrodex does not store well once opened. Black powder will keep in definitely as long as it is kept dry. But if Pyrodex is all you can get locally and don;t want to pay the haz mat fees for small quantities user it.

I was gifted an open can of pistol pyrodex about 15 years ago. It was opened way back given to me, clumped and unclumped and shoots just fine? The can has stayed in AZ its whole live (which I am guessing is over 25 years. No humidity may be why I can get away with it and you cannot? I get same POI as new pyrode. This all said I would MUCH prefer recommend 777 over pyrodex and have ordered a possible life time supply of Schutez on line from Crater Fireworks and one other place thats in the old guy section of the brain at this time.

 

[molson73]

Track of the Wolf in Minnesota has BP. I dont know where you are in Wisconsin. Its hard to find in MN also.

 

[Wisconsin Relic]

Thanks to everyone who helped with my question. I know you all like photos, so here’s one of me with 2 rifles I’ve built. One is a CVA Kentucky long rifle, .45 caliber. I built it around 1974 and hunted with it until 2017. The shorter one is a .50 caliber I built late in 2016 and have been hunting with it since. My son & I will both be hunting near the end of this month with similar .50 cal muzzleloaders. Camping out for the hunt, too.