Boiled linseed oil vs raw linseed oil

[PathfinderNC]

Amazing collection of armchair experience.

 

[PathfinderNC]

Purely for esthetic reasons(smell/feel) and some people like the idea of polymerised linseed oil as the final finish layer so they can rubb in a little extra every year.

It won't 'rub in' because the wood is sealed. It will just build up on the surface. Big difference.

 

[Ironoxide]

It won't 'rub in' because the wood is sealed. It will just build up on the surface. Big difference.

It will "rub in" exactly the same as if you were adding a new coat. I guess if it is meant literally you're right. It will not rub in. It will rub on

Amazing collection of armchair experience.

Have a look at my threads to see how "armchair" my experience is.

 

[MrMackc]

To me linseed oil for stock finish being compared to Tru-Oil is like a kerosene lamp being compared to a LED lamp, or the stuff that was used in 1850 compared to what I use in 2021. Tru- oil has tung oil in it along with some other stuff

 

[Ironoxide]

To me linseed oil for stock finish being compared to Tru-Oil is like a kerosene lamp being compared to a LED lamp, or the stuff that was used in 1850 compared to what I use in 2021. Tru- oil has tung oil in it along with some other stuff
View attachment 92251

Well, in your example both lamps do make light.. Right?

Regarding the subject of the thread, natural drying oils (linseed oil, tung oil) , as well as oil based modern varnishes(marine spar varnish, outdoor use poly), and mixes of both(tru-oil?) all polymerise resulting in a plastic-like coatings that differ in their physical properties, but are not that dissimilar.

I think all have their place.

Edit: It is possible to use different finishes in one object. For example boiled linseed on top of polyurethane, but for anyone planning to do it. You have to test compatibility of your chosen product on a piece of scrap before. There is no way of telling in advance which modern product will play well with it.

 

[Springerpanhead]

Well, in your example both lamps do make light.. Right?

Regarding the subject of the thread, natural drying oils (linseed oil, tung oil) , as well as oil based modern varnishes(marine spar varnish, outdoor use poly), and mixes of both(tru-oil?) all polymerise resulting in a plastic-like coatings that differ in their physical properties, but are not that dissimilar.

I think all have their place.

Edit: It is possible to use different finishes in one object. For example boiled linseed on top of polyurethane, but for anyone planning to do it. You have to test compatibility of your chosen product on a piece of scrap before. There is no way of telling in advance which modern product will play well with it.

I suppose this will upset a lot of knowledgeable posters on this thread. For 60 years I have used nothing but raw linseed oil on wooden objects from gun stocks made of Black Walnut, Various Maples, Rosewood, Birch, and Siberian Larch, to furniture made of everything from Pine to Mahogany. If applied very sparingly and hand rubbed in it dries or is absorbed fairly quickly. Its a long process actually taking years in some cases, depending on if you want a matte or shiny finish. If a darker color is desired, mixing a little Minwax Oil Based stain with the raw linseed gets the job done. It is not practical for a “ customer’s gun “ but for my own, I find the process enjoyable, and produces a deep penetrating finish that is in look, smell, and feel, incomparable to any other, unless you like the bowling alley look. I was once asked if I knew what a snipers primary weapon was. When I answered the rifle, I was told. No, it’s patients.

 

[OldMaineWoodsman]

Boiled and Raw Linseed oils both have their place in stock finishing. In my experience many people use too much of it at a time.

All of the old firearms manufacturers such as Parker Brothers, Hunter Arms (L.C. Smith), Fox, Lefever, etc. all had their own formulas.

 

[MrMackc]

yes both make light, but not the same amount or same quality of light.

 

[JCKelly]

Linspeed Oil chemistry was changed back in the 1970's. Dad complained, as he used the original to refinish a fair amount of antique family furniture.
I'm not sure there really is something these days that is "boiled linseed oil", that actually has been boiled. Hardware stuff tends tobe good for painting the house but it really is not what the can says it is.
One reason I am picky is that I do some oil painting, just for fun. I am NOT an artist. Linseed oil "drys" by reacting with the oxygen in the air to form a tough, stable film. Stuff added to the oil to make it "dry" faster usually makes that film a bit less tough.
I would suggest, if you want real linseed oil log on to: jerrysartistoutlet.com. Look under: paints > mediums > oil mediums & varnishes. There you will find many different brands of COLD PRESSED LINSEED OIL. Don't know which might be preferred. Pricy but not necessarily more so than assorted gun stock finish.
I used Stand Oil (because I had some) to finish one painting box. Takes forever to dry.
The book I use as a standard text is: The Artist’s Handbook of Materials and Techniques, 5th Edition, Revised & Updated, Ralph Mayer

 

[stewart.leach]

I was told that the military used raw linseed oil to finish rifles like the M1 Garand, 1903 Springfield, and others. I like the idea of going military standard to get a hard wearing, dull finish for a hunting rifle.

I am curious what experienced rifle builders have to say.

I once toured the armory museum at Springfield, MA, and learned that stocks were finished by dipping in boiled linseed oil. Many stocks were mounted in a circular rack that then dipped into a circular tank of hot oil. Tour docent said they tried to finish stocks a month or so ahead of assembling the rifles.

 

[Ironoxide]

I suppose this will upset a lot of knowledgeable posters on this thread. For 60 years I have used nothing but raw linseed oil on wooden objects from gun stocks made of Black Walnut, Various Maples, Rosewood, Birch, and Siberian Larch, to furniture made of everything from Pine to Mahogany. If applied very sparingly and hand rubbed in it dries or is absorbed fairly quickly. Its a long process actually taking years in some cases, depending on if you want a matte or shiny finish. If a darker color is desired, mixing a little Minwax Oil Based stain with the raw linseed gets the job done. It is not practical for a “ customer’s gun “ but for my own, I find the process enjoyable, and produces a deep penetrating finish that is in look, smell, and feel, incomparable to any other, unless you like the bowling alley look. I was once asked if I knew what a snipers primary weapon was. When I answered the rifle, I was told. No, it’s patients.

I'm not sure why anyone would get upset

Your experience matches with everyone else's posts including myself. No one said raw linseed will never set. Very thin layers set quicker as well as those exposed to sunlight. UV rays speed up the process.

However, I would be very interested in hearing from you Springerpanheads why do you use raw linseed oil instead of boiled? What perceived or real advantage does it give you to offset the inconvenience of having to wait longer? Or do you simply don't mind the wait and you prefer a simpler, purer product?

On subject of boiled linseed oil not being what it used to, that is completely true. One of first drying agents used with drying oils were lead salts. For example lead white and lead sugar. We all know why lead salts are a no no.

I don't know what do they use in today's "boiled linseed", but I have no doubt it dries much much quicker than raw oil. I'm not surprised at all old stuff was better. As in machining greases(lead white), cadmium in hard soldering, or pure lead in soft soldering. There were many processes that were far superior that were banned because of perceived (and real) health risks.

If I was making spoons, or food bowls I would do a lot more research what indeed is in a boiled linseed oil I use. For gun stocks I would be fine with lead salts (except those that are water soluble like lead sugar).

 

[45man]

Boiled linseed oil is not boiled, it just means a solvent was added. Either one will never really dry. Linseed oil is used in house paint to let the wood breath moisture out.
Of all Tru Oil is best. Linspeed does not dry for a long, long time.

 

[4575wcf]

The poorest oil finish I ever got was Tru Oil over a water based stain. I got ahold of a quart bottle of Watco furniture tung oil so long ago I don't remember where, and several coats rubbed in until warm and tacky is the ticket for me. Coast range tested.

 

[troy2000]

I buy food-grade raw linseed oil (aka flaxseed oil or flax oil) at health food stores, and use it to season my cast iron cookware.

 

[Springerpanhead]

I'm not sure why anyone would get upset

Your experience matches with everyone else's posts including myself. No one said raw linseed will never set. Very thin layers set quicker as well as those exposed to sunlight. UV rays speed up the process.

However, I would be very interested in hearing from you Springerpanheads why do you use raw linseed oil instead of boiled? What perceived or real advantage does it give you to offset the inconvenience of having to wait longer? Or do you simply don't mind the wait and you prefer a simpler, purer product?

On subject of boiled linseed oil not being what it used to, that is completely true. One of first drying agents used with drying oils were lead salts. For example lead white and lead sugar. We all know why lead salts are a no no.

I don't know what do they use in today's "boiled linseed", but I have no doubt it dries much much quicker than raw oil. I'm not surprised at all old stuff was better. As in machining greases(lead white), cadmium in hard soldering, or pure lead in soft soldering. There were many processes that were far superior that were banned because of perceived (and real) health risks.

If I was making spoons, or food bowls I would do a lot more research what indeed is in a boiled linseed oil I use. For gun stocks I would be fine with lead salts (except those that are water soluble like lead sugar).

The main reason I use raw instead of so called boiled is i hand rub my stocks, meaning with the bare skin of my palm. A process I rather enjoy. Raw linseed is basically the same product sold as flax seed oil in health food stores with a little less care taken in manufacture to insure it is “ food grade “ as food grade it can
even be taken internally and often is. I do not want any “ drying agents “ absorbed through my skin . Additionally, I don’t mind the wait, and find the developing finish somewhat akin to watching something treasured grow.

 

[troy2000]

I'm mildly surprised no one has mentioned gunny paste yet: equal amounts of beeswax, turpentine and boiled linseed oil, lovingly hand-rubbed in over time. I have somewhere north of two dozen bolt-action milsurps of one sort or another, plus miscellaneous other long guns, and that's the treatment they all get - over linseed oil if I'm refinishing them, or as a protective layer over the original finish. It gives a deep soft glow instead of a plastic shininess, it isn't slippery to the grip, it's easy to touch up or renew - and I may be weird, but I actually like the smell.

I'm sure linseed oil by itself, or as part of gunny paste, isn't as watertight as more modern finishes. But I hang out in the desert. On the rare occasions when there's water falling out of the sky, I stay the heck inside.

When it comes to sealing inletting and barrel channels, Jim Kibler recommends a single application of whatever you're using as a finish coat.

Add: I have an old Winchester 'thutty-thutty' a guy found behind a bush off a hiking trail, when he answered a call of nature. It was completely buried in sand and dirt, except for most of the buttstock. The side of the buttstock exposed to the weather looked like a piece of driftwood: grey, feathery and covered with cracks both deep and shallow.

I sanded off the fluff, and started laying coats of gunny paste into the wood. After a few months the cracks had closed up, and the color of the walnut matches the side that had been facing down. People who shoot it don't even notice anything about the stock... The receiver will never look brand new again, but the barrel looks decent and the bore is fine. I have to tell you, though: disassembling a Winchester '94 down to every pin and screw, to make sure you got every last grain of sand out of it, isn't a task for the faint-hearted.

 

[cal.43]

I like linseed oil,
new linseed oil is good for the salat, for wood I boiled it .
I don´t use dryer in linseed oil because most of them are poisson or carcinogenic

 

[Ironoxide]

The main reason I use raw instead of so called boiled is i hand rub my stocks, meaning with the bare skin of my palm. A process I rather enjoy. Raw linseed is basically the same product sold as flax seed oil in health food stores with a little less care taken in manufacture to insure it is “ food grade “ as food grade it can
even be taken internally and often is. I do not want any “ drying agents “ absorbed through my skin . Additionally, I don’t mind the wait, and find the developing finish somewhat akin to watching something treasured grow.

Thanks. That makes sense.

I wasn't sure what exact drying agents they use in modern blo. I use it with bare hands too so I decided to find out.

Out of 5 brands I checked (2 from UK, one from Sweden - this is the one I use, 1 from USA, 1 from New Zealand) 3 brands do not contain any drying agents! They contain simply boiled (sometimes twice) oxidised linseed oil. No surprise people say the modern blo is not the same as that of old. It is missing an essential ingredient! However, this makes use of it equally safe as that of raw linseed oil. For those interested those are the brands that do not add any driers (Bartoline - UK, Rustins - UK, possibly NZ brand Powafix).

Then there is the US brand Sunnyside Corp that markets a product simply called "Boiled Linseed Oil" that contains "cobalt manganese salt" as drier. It is not specified what kind of cobalt manganese salt is used, but cobalt is definitely not good for you. Whether it can get absorbed through skin depends on exact chemicals used. I would avoid it, especially for food grade items like salad bowls.

Then there is the Swedish brand I use called Allback. It contains 2-ethylhexanoic salt of manganese as drying agent. It takes a good week to dry at least (in thin coats). Manganese salts are not harmful in general, but ethylhexanoic acid is an irritant and a poison if eaten. It is mutagenic in general, but supposedly not cancerogenic to humans in concentrations used.

The New Zealand brand doesn't specify exact composition of their product, but claim 100% non harmful components.

So there you have it. Boiled linseed is definitely boiled, some brands are twice boiled and "degummed" , it can have various dries added or it can have nothing added to it.

Boiled linseed oil is not boiled, it just means a solvent was added. Either one will never really dry. Linseed oil is used in house paint to let the wood breath moisture out.
Of all Tru Oil is best. Linspeed does not dry for a long, long time.

Not quite. Please see above.

 

[Erwan]

I just know since very long time and by what told me some olds carpenters in wood of rifles of the school of Saint-Étienne about the flax oil : "you just have to know that the heated flax oil polymerizes faster and harder than the natural oil. The rest is playing with the different types of wood and their reactions, and some few drops of siccative can accelerate drying and curing"...
Armories don't do that anymore since very long time...
After that, they have each one their manner to do : some with siccative, some with heated oil, other with oil and red heated iron putted in the oil at the just time for the just result, mix of oils etc...
It is long, fairly random, and that a work needed to be well learned : this is a profession and those guys just did that their whole life in arms factory.
For long time I tried to obtain something fine, but now, like everybody, I use the True Oil and this is good and speedy.
That's for my personal story, and I can't help anybody with that : each man do its own experience at the bench, and there is no absolute working recipe and no more warranty of result.

 

[Springerpanhead]

I'm mildly surprised no one has mentioned gunny paste yet: equal amounts of beeswax, turpentine and boiled linseed oil, lovingly hand-rubbed in over time. I have somewhere north of two dozen bolt-action milsurps of one sort or another, plus miscellaneous other long guns, and that's the treatment they all get - over linseed oil if I'm refinishing them, or as a protective layer over the original finish. It gives a deep soft glow instead of a plastic shininess, it isn't slippery to the grip, it's easy to touch up or renew - and I may be weird, but I actually like the smell.

I'm sure linseed oil by itself, or as part of gunny paste, isn't as watertight as more modern finishes. But I hang out in the desert. On the rare occasions when there's water falling out of the sky, I stay the heck inside.

When it comes to sealing inletting and barrel channels, Jim Kibler recommends a single application of whatever you're using as a finish coat.

Add: I have an old Winchester 'thutty-thutty' a guy found behind a bush off a hiking trail, when he answered a call of nature. It was completely buried in sand and dirt, except for most of the buttstock. The side of the buttstock exposed to the weather looked like a piece of driftwood: grey, feathery and covered with cracks both deep and shallow.

I sanded off the fluff, and started laying coats of gunny paste into the wood. After a few months the cracks had closed up, and the color of the walnut matches the side that had been facing down. People who shoot it don't even notice anything about the stock... The receiver will never look brand new again, but the barrel looks decent and the bore is fine. I have to tell you, though: disassembling a Winchester '94 down to every pin and screw, to make sure you got every last grain of sand out of it, isn't a task for the faint-hearted.

I'm mildly surprised no one has mentioned gunny paste yet: equal amounts of beeswax, turpentine and boiled linseed oil, lovingly hand-rubbed in over time. I have somewhere north of two dozen bolt-action milsurps of one sort or another, plus miscellaneous other long guns, and that's the treatment they all get - over linseed oil if I'm refinishing them, or as a protective layer over the original finish. It gives a deep soft glow instead of a plastic shininess, it isn't slippery to the grip, it's easy to touch up or renew - and I may be weird, but I actually like the smell.

I'm sure linseed oil by itself, or as part of gunny paste, isn't as watertight as more modern finishes. But I hang out in the desert. On the rare occasions when there's water falling out of the sky, I stay the heck inside.

When it comes to sealing inletting and barrel channels, Jim Kibler recommends a single application of whatever you're using as a finish coat.

Add: I have an old Winchester 'thutty-thutty' a guy found behind a bush off a hiking trail, when he answered a call of nature. It was completely buried in sand and dirt, except for most of the buttstock. The side of the buttstock exposed to the weather looked like a piece of driftwood: grey, feathery and covered with cracks both deep and shallow.

I sanded off the fluff, and started laying coats of gunny paste into the wood. After a few months the cracks had closed up, and the color of the walnut matches the side that had been facing down. People who shoot it don't even notice anything about the stock... The receiver will never look brand new again, but the barrel looks decent and the bore is fine. I have to tell you, though: disassembling a Winchester '94 down to every pin and screw, to make sure you got every last grain of sand out of it, isn't a task for the faint-hearted.

I'm mildly surprised no one has mentioned gunny paste yet: equal amounts of beeswax, turpentine and boiled linseed oil, lovingly hand-rubbed in over time. I have somewhere north of two dozen bolt-action milsurps of one sort or another, plus miscellaneous other long guns, and that's the treatment they all get - over linseed oil if I'm refinishing them, or as a protective layer over the original finish. It gives a deep soft glow instead of a plastic shininess, it isn't slippery to the grip, it's easy to touch up or renew - and I may be weird, but I actually like the smell.

I'm sure linseed oil by itself, or as part of gunny paste, isn't as watertight as more modern finishes. But I hang out in the desert. On the rare occasions when there's water falling out of the sky, I stay the heck inside.

When it comes to sealing inletting and barrel channels, Jim Kibler recommends a single application of whatever you're using as a finish coat.

Add: I have an old Winchester 'thutty-thutty' a guy found behind a bush off a hiking trail, when he answered a call of nature. It was completely buried in sand and dirt, except for most of the buttstock. The side of the buttstock exposed to the weather looked like a piece of driftwood: grey, feathery and covered with cracks both deep and shallow.

I sanded off the fluff, and started laying coats of gunny paste into the wood. After a few months the cracks had closed up, and the color of the walnut matches the side that had been facing down. People who shoot it don't even notice anything about the stock... The receiver will never look brand new again, but the barrel looks decent and the bore is fine. I have to tell you, though: disassembling a Winchester '94 down to every pin and screw, to make sure you got every last grain of sand out of it, isn't a task for the faint-hearted.

I'm mildly surprised no one has mentioned gunny paste yet: equal amounts of beeswax, turpentine and boiled linseed oil, lovingly hand-rubbed in over time. I have somewhere north of two dozen bolt-action milsurps of one sort or another, plus miscellaneous other long guns, and that's the treatment they all get - over linseed oil if I'm refinishing them, or as a protective layer over the original finish. It gives a deep soft glow instead of a plastic shininess, it isn't slippery to the grip, it's easy to touch up or renew - and I may be weird, but I actually like the smell.

I'm sure linseed oil by itself, or as part of gunny paste, isn't as watertight as more modern finishes. But I hang out in the desert. On the rare occasions when there's water falling out of the sky, I stay the heck inside.

When it comes to sealing inletting and barrel channels, Jim Kibler recommends a single application of whatever you're using as a finish coat.

Add: I have an old Winchester 'thutty-thutty' a guy found behind a bush off a hiking trail, when he answered a call of nature. It was completely buried in sand and dirt, except for most of the buttstock. The side of the buttstock exposed to the weather looked like a piece of driftwood: grey, feathery and covered with cracks both deep and shallow.

I sanded off the fluff, and started laying coats of gunny paste into the wood. After a few months the cracks had closed up, and the color of the walnut matches the side that had been facing down. People who shoot it don't even notice anything about the stock... The receiver will never look brand new again, but the barrel looks decent and the bore is fine. I have to tell you, though: disassembling a Winchester '94 down to every pin and screw, to make sure you got every last grain of sand out of it, isn't a task for the faint-hearted.

I use a mixture of beeswax, olive oil, and Venice terpintine to treat my leather holsters after making them. Venice Terpintine is not what you buy in the paint store. It is a jelly like substance bought in tack stores and farrier supply houses and is used to toughen the soles of horses feet. In that application it must be used very judiciously, as it is very penetrating and highly irritating and can actually lame a horse. The Venice Terpintine penetrates and stiffens, the beeswax adds a soft waterproof sheen and the olive oil simply facilitates application. The mixture is initially very tacky but dries to a beautiful finish with a nice natural feel. Obviously this mixture must be made with the beeswax in a melted condition.