Bought a pieta 1858 Remington. Looking for some load data and answers.

[45D]

Actually I don't feel that things have really changed that much, it is just pushed on us more by the liberal media. Back in the 90's you did not go into Harlem or Spanish Harlem without a very strong reason. You did not go into East LA without having a death wish, or South Chicago, and there was no Brotherly love in Phila!. I worked in a gas station for 6 yrs going to school (PA) The station was in a decent neighborhood etc. It was open around the clock. One evening one of our guys was shot n killed since we worked the "graveyard shift" and all carried 1-2 k in cash in those days, few credit cards being used. After the incident the boss took us to the State Police and we took the tests and received CCW permits. We had a legitimate reason. This was 1969! So, things could go bad quickly even then. Still, I rarely carried unless I was working. I think the only thing that has changed significantly is the liberal failure to support Police and prosecute criminals. That is why I use my CCW more today than i ever did then. Also, I can not move, fight, shoot etc nearly as well as I could in those days. So, I have to be packin to even the odds. It is not my favorite thing to do, in fact it is a pita most times. IMHO

I see your point, the difference is you were around it all the time. My town ( still live there today) was "Mayberry" when I was growing up, going to school . . . not anymore!! Nearby Atlanta (Buckhead ) area was a posh, safe place to go until the last 3 yrs. Today thugs rule the streets, dirt bikes / 4 wheelers on the streets, gang bangers robbing / shooting up Lenox Square . . . main problem is the spread of it and the invasion going on.
Constitution is the only "legitimate reason" as far as I'm concerned. Shouldn't ever have to ask govt. permission to protect oneself.

Most or all of this could have been avoided if it weren't for career politicians.

Mike

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

For your safety and the safety of others get a good leather holster. For concealed carry I chose a shoulder rig. Know your state laws concerning concealed carry. Some states require a permit, others don't. A good load for a .44 calibre would be no more than 25 grains of fffg black powder. I use tallow and plenty of it. I'd get a graduated powder measurer to determine the best load for your revolver. Even brands and models from the same manufacturer will have different perfect loads for each revolver. Once you find that perfect load, stick with it. On the cylinder will be six nipples. Make sure your caps fit good and tight. If not. get some Treso Ampco nipples, 6x.75mm Thread, .520 cone length. #11 caps will fit perfectly. Your factory nipples may not fit #11 nipples. Italian specs. Also, to be really safe, load five chambers and let the hammer rest on the empty chamber. For your projectile, I would not use any jacketed or fmj. Use only pure lead. Your barrel was not meant for any projectile, but pure lead. Lastly, again, determine the laws for your age bracket for your state before attempting open or concealed carry. Knowing the law will save you a lot of needless legal expense. Some states do not care about your 2nd Amendment rights. I had a friend that told the judge about his 2nd Amendment rights and the judge through the book at him. He paid needless attorney fees. Have fun and be safe.

I cast hp and round balls so no jackets to worry about. The hammer locks in between cylinders.

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

Well, this is all well and good, but i still am having a hard time understanding why an 18 yr old feels like they need to be armed! Something is not complete in this picture. How many of you were armed 24/7 when you were 18? I know I wasn't? Just one man's opinion.

I'm armed bc I have seen too many people get robbed shot or killed. On the news in Houston or Dallas or San Antonio it happens to anyone at any age.

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

For your safety and the safety of others get a good leather holster. For concealed carry I chose a shoulder rig. Know your state laws concerning concealed carry. Some states require a permit, others don't. A good load for a .44 calibre would be no more than 25 grains of fffg black powder. I use tallow and plenty of it. I'd get a graduated powder measurer to determine the best load for your revolver. Even brands and models from the same manufacturer will have different perfect loads for each revolver. Once you find that perfect load, stick with it. On the cylinder will be six nipples. Make sure your caps fit good and tight. If not. get some Treso Ampco nipples, 6x.75mm Thread, .520 cone length. #11 caps will fit perfectly. Your factory nipples may not fit #11 nipples. Italian specs. Also, to be really safe, load five chambers and let the hammer rest on the empty chamber. For your projectile, I would not use any jacketed or fmj. Use only pure lead. Your barrel was not meant for any projectile, but pure lead. Lastly, again, determine the laws for your age bracket for your state before attempting open or concealed carry. Knowing the law will save you a lot of needless legal expense. Some states do not care about your 2nd Amendment rights. I had a friend that told the judge about his 2nd Amendment rights and the judge through the book at him. He paid needless attorney fees. Have fun and be safe.

Hawken with an E and no S.

My apologies I probably wrote that late or in a hurry. I ment hawkens auto correct and the s was intentional I have a 50 and a 45 it would be a side arm to either hence the plural.

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

For your safety and the safety of others get a good leather holster. For concealed carry I chose a shoulder rig. Know your state laws concerning concealed carry. Some states require a permit, others don't. A good load for a .44 calibre would be no more than 25 grains of fffg black powder. I use tallow and plenty of it. I'd get a graduated powder measurer to determine the best load for your revolver. Even brands and models from the same manufacturer will have different perfect loads for each revolver. Once you find that perfect load, stick with it. On the cylinder will be six nipples. Make sure your caps fit good and tight. If not. get some Treso Ampco nipples, 6x.75mm Thread, .520 cone length. #11 caps will fit perfectly. Your factory nipples may not fit #11 nipples. Italian specs. Also, to be really safe, load five chambers and let the hammer rest on the empty chamber. For your projectile, I would not use any jacketed or fmj. Use only pure lead. Your barrel was not meant for any projectile, but pure lead. Lastly, again, determine the laws for your age bracket for your state before attempting open or concealed carry. Knowing the law will save you a lot of needless legal expense. Some states do not care about your 2nd Amendment rights. I had a friend that told the judge about his 2nd Amendment rights and the judge through the book at him. He paid needless attorney fees. Have fun and be safe.

It's legal for me to carry a Glock in Texas. I chose cap and ball because of circumstances out of my control. And if it shoots a 5in group at 20 yards it's good enough. The 1860 army I have shoots really good with 45gn of pyro the best load is 25gn but the 45gn is only a bit worse of a group. I'm talking same holes at 15 yards vs 2in group at 15 not a big difference.

 

[Jedidiah]

I'm armed bc I have seen too many people get robbed shot or killed. On the news in Houston or Dallas or San Antonio it happens to anyone at any age.

yes, it can be a hard world at times but do not fall prey to the nay sayers etc that all is lost etc and you need to be armed to the teeth 24/7. In reality, such is not the case. Live in fear, Die in despair.... you can do quite well in today's world with a bit of situational awareness and alot of commons sense. IMHO

 

[Jedidiah]

I see your point, the difference is you were around it all the time. My town ( still live there today) was "Mayberry" when I was growing up, going to school . . . not anymore!! Nearby Atlanta (Buckhead ) area was a posh, safe place to go until the last 3 yrs. Today thugs rule the streets, dirt bikes / 4 wheelers on the streets, gang bangers robbing / shooting up Lenox Square . . . main problem is the spread of it and the invasion going on.
Constitution is the only "legitimate reason" as far as I'm concerned. Shouldn't ever have to ask govt. permission to protect oneself.

Most or all of this could have been avoided if it weren't for career politicians.

Mike

I worked in the Buckhead area back in the day. it was a very nice $$ area then.

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

yes, it can be a hard world at times but do not fall prey to the nay sayers etc that all is lost etc and you need to be armed to the teeth 24/7. In reality, such is not the case. Live in fear, Die in despair.... you can do quite well in today's world with a bit of situational awareness and alot of commons sense. IMHO

Armed to the teeth?? Its a 6 shot revolver. If I was armed to the teeth I would wear a chest rig and carry an AR. I'm not armed to the teeth. I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Also when did I ever say anything about Carry 24/7? I work night shift and the place I work and the 3 places next to it have been robbed. You act like I'm preparing for a fire fight. No amount of situational awareness stops a crack head from busting you in the head with a brick. Sure you can see him but what will you do run and hope he gets tired first? Politely explain it's illegal? Maybe you should call the cops and stall for 15 minutes until they get there. Or do everything you can to calm him down give 4 sharp commands and stand your ground. You can't always run away and you can't always have a cop right there to save you. Some times you have to save yourself.

 

[Jedidiah]

Armed to the teeth?? Its a 6 shot revolver. If I was armed to the teeth I would wear a chest rig and carry an AR. I'm not armed to the teeth. I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Also when did I ever say anything about Carry 24/7? I work night shift and the place I work and the 3 places next to it have been robbed. You act like I'm preparing for a fire fight. No amount of situational awareness stops a crack head from busting you in the head with a brick. Sure you can see him but what will you do run and hope he gets tired first? Politely explain it's illegal? Maybe you should call the cops and stall for 15 minutes until they get there. Or do everything you can to calm him down give 4 sharp commands and stand your ground. You can't always run away and you can't always have a cop right there to save you. Some times you have to save yourself.

LOL, are you really that afraid the dreaded "crack head" is going to assault you? First, yes, you can call 911. second, yes, you can leave, run or whatever, third YOU do not have the right to shoot anyone unless you life is in immediate imminent danger , and you can prove it in a court of law,so the crackhead better be armed, 6'5 and 220 lbs etc...or you may be explaining to the Da why you felt it necessary to shoot . There is more to carrying a firearm then stuffing it in your pants. The laws are very clear about the use of lethal force, and they are not as forgiving as you might think. Some of us have been through it. Most of you never will have that experience. Consider yourself lucky. Just one man's opinion, but you have already convinced yourself that you need a firearm to solve your potential problems. No amount of discussion is going to change that. IMHO

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

LOL, are you really that afraid the dreaded "crack head" is going to assault you? First, yes, you can call 911. second, yes, you can leave, run or whatever, third YOU do not have the right to shoot anyone unless you life is in immediate imminent dang , and you can prove it,so the crackhead better be armed, 6'5 and 220 lbs etc...or you will be explaining to the Da why you felt it necessary to shoot . There is more to carrying a firearm then stuffing it in your pants. The laws are very clear about the use of lethal force, and they are not as forgiving as you might think. Some of us have been through it. Most of you never will have that experience. Consider yourself lucky. Just one man's opinion, but you have already convinced yourself that you need a firearm to solve your potential problems. No amount of discussion is going to change that. IMHO

You clearly don't understand the law... I'm Texas we have the stand your ground law clearly stating that I have no legal requirements to run away or escape. Secondly a brick is armed and legally a deadly weapon if you don't believe me just ask that one truck driver. In the state of Texas lethal force is authorized if you feel your life is in danger of you are at risk of great bodily harm. Aka a brick to the head causing severe brain hemorrhaging. It is also authorized to shoot someone breaking into your car so long as it is night time. You see I live in a real state with real Americans. I understand the laws inside and out. To add to my previous point I said crack head on purpose because I doubt you are going to out run someone on drugs. And I doubt the cops will get there before you run out of breath. Texas has NO duty to retreat laws and actually has multiple laws proving that. So before you try and school me on my states laws and my education research the castle doctrine and Texas stand your ground laws.

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

LOL, are you really that afraid the dreaded "crack head" is going to assault you? First, yes, you can call 911. second, yes, you can leave, run or whatever, third YOU do not have the right to shoot anyone unless you life is in immediate imminent danger , and you can prove it in a court of law,so the crackhead better be armed, 6'5 and 220 lbs etc...or you may be explaining to the Da why you felt it necessary to shoot . There is more to carrying a firearm then stuffing it in your pants. The laws are very clear about the use of lethal force, and they are not as forgiving as you might think. Some of us have been through it. Most of you never will have that experience. Consider yourself lucky. Just one man's opinion, but you have already convinced yourself that you need a firearm to solve your potential problems. No amount of discussion is going to change that. IMHO

And to correct you I 100% have the right to shoot someone if my life is not in imminent danger. Protection of others and valuables counts. And not to mention imminent is an incorrect statement as well. My life could be in danger though not imminent and I have the legal right to pull the trigger. Example someone walking towards you with a machete. He is 20 yards away. I'm not in imminent danger but in another 20 yards I will be and at 10 yards I'm shooting.

 

[Jedidiah]

And to correct you I 100% have the right to shoot someone if my life is not in imminent danger. Protection of others and valuables counts. And not to mention imminent is an incorrect statement as well. My life could be in danger though not imminent and I have the legal right to pull the trigger. Example someone walking towards you with a machete. He is 20 yards away. I'm not in imminent danger but in another 20 yards I will be and at 10 yards I'm shooting.

You are wrong. You have never been in a trial of lethal force. i have. The DA will ask you why you didn't leave. What will you tell him, I did'nt feel like it? LOL, Then they will ask you if you thought the appropriate response to a brick was killing this person. DUH! There is justice and then there is law and the law is what matters and it gets interpreted in many different ways depending on the situation. Stand Your ground laws are not a get out of jail free card. These laws have been shown to be flawed and have not protected individuals from prosecution many times! Your 18 year old mentality and youngster hormones will get you locked up. Not my problem. we'll send you a card. Oh, by the way after serving as an Officer in the Marines(nam 72) i spent 12 yrs or more in the DOD/DIA /DSE as an agt taking out the trash. I know EXACTLY what will happen to you and why. However, you keep doing you. Good luck!

And to correct you I 100% have the right to shoot someone if my life is not in imminent danger. Protection of others and valuables counts. And not to mention imminent is an incorrect statement as well. My life could be in danger though not imminent and I have the legal right to pull the trigger. Example someone walking towards you with a machete. He is 20 yards away. I'm not in imminent danger but in another 20 yards I will be and at 10 yards I'm shooting.

as long as you can prove it. then comes the civil trials for wrongful death etc.

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

You are wrong. You have never been in a trial of lethal force. i have. The DA will ask you why you didn't leave. What will you tell him, I did'nt feel like it? LOL, Then they will ask you if you thought the appropriate response to a brick was killing this person. DUH! There is justice and then there is law and the law is what matters and it gets interpreted in many different ways depending on the situation. Stand Your ground laws are not a get out of jail free card. These laws have been shown to be flawed and have not protected individuals from prosecution many times! Your 18 year old mentality and youngster hormones will get you locked up. Not my problem. we'll send you a card. Oh, by the way after serving as an Officer in the Marines(nam 72) i spent 12 yrs or more in the dDOD/DIA /DSE as an agt taking out the trash. I know EXACTLY what will happen to you and why. However, you keep doing you. Good luck!

as long as y can prove it.

I'm quite interested were you charged in Texas by chance? Bc the da can't ask that question in Texas. except for in extraneous circumstances. Typically only brought up in civil dispute cases when a husband or wife dose something. Then the why didn't you leave argument stands. But a da in Texas won't ask why didn't you run away because we have like 3 different laws saying you don't have to run away.

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

You are wrong. You have never been in a trial of lethal force. i have. The DA will ask you why you didn't leave. What will you tell him, I did'nt feel like it? LOL, Then they will ask you if you thought the appropriate response to a brick was killing this person. DUH! There is justice and then there is law and the law is what matters and it gets interpreted in many different ways depending on the situation. Stand Your ground laws are not a get out of jail free card. These laws have been shown to be flawed and have not protected individuals from prosecution many times! Your 18 year old mentality and youngster hormones will get you locked up. Not my problem. we'll send you a card. Oh, by the way after serving as an Officer in the Marines(nam 72) i spent 12 yrs or more in the DOD/DIA /DSE as an agt taking out the trash. I know EXACTLY what will happen to you and why. However, you keep doing you. Good luck!

as long as you can prove it. then comes the civil trials for wrongful death etc.

And if that question did come up I didn't feel like it is a stupid answer. Something like. "under the stress of fearing for my life I felt my abily to stop the threat was greater than my chances of escaping. I have a bad knee and proof through x rays and doctors reference"

 

[Jedidiah]

I'm quite interested were you charged in Texas by chance? Bc the da can't ask that question in Texas. except for in extraneous circumstances. Typically only brought up in civil dispute cases when a husband or wife dose something. Then the why didn't you leave argument stands. But a da in Texas won't ask why didn't you run away because we have like 3 different laws saying you don't have to run away.

Actually, i was in Ca and once in AZ. The so called Castle laws existed there too.I was the head witness for the prosecution on ne case. When asked if the person in question could have taken another course of action, I said yes, they had the opportunity to leave. Done, guilty. Just because the law says you do not have to run away, does not mean you stay and escalate the situation into a fight. Because you can do something doesn't mean that you should. The second was in Az, very liberal laws better than Texas. I had interrupted a robber, on my own property had every right to put the perpetrator down as he was running away. I was armed with a 1911 and a Benelli M2. The Police asked me why I didn't shoot the man fleeing. I told them "this isn't the OK corral, and I'm not Wyatt Earp! The cops picked him up trying to leave the community, which was gated, and had only one way in or out. I knew that is what would happen. No shots fired, mission accomplished. Like I said, you know it all, good luck, LOL,LOL

 

[Jedidiah]

And if that question did come up I didn't feel like it is a stupid answer. Something like. "under the stress of fearing for my life I felt my abily to stop the threat was greater than my chances of escaping. I have a bad knee and proof through x rays and doctors reference"

which is also why you are living with someone who can't own firearms, right? Oh no, you mean they will drag that into court too! ??

 

[Jedidiah]

which is also why you are living with someone who can't own firearms, right? Oh no, you mean they will drag that into court too! ??

I have been shot, I have shot others , I have been in trials as a witness and as a defendant. I have a CCW in three States and am a Certified Trainer in Pistol and CQB with credentials at the Federal, State and local level. I am fairly versed in what transpires when weapons are involved. I am sure your experience is also substantial too. So, have at it. Like I said, you do you. No point in dragging a discussion on that will serve no purpose and provide no learning or positive outcome. Have a good day.

 

[brushblind]

I bought the sheriff with the 5.5in barrel and am looking for a good load that would work on deer. Ik I'm barking up the wrong tree with the short barrel but I think it's possible. I have a 200gn deep hollow point for 45acp that I think will work wonderfully. I think I can cram 35gn of pyrodex under it. What velocity am I looking forward to. I want to use a heavy HP to make up for the short barrel and help the powder burn and I don't want over penetration because it will all so be my carry pistol. No I'm not a felon I'm 18 and the founding fathers said I should be able to carry a gun so I will. For the record I absolutely love the 58 Remington my 1860 army is great and all but it just doesn't tickle my fancy the same.

Those .452 acp bullets will most likely get all bungled up during the loading thus giving very poor performance. I realize your 18 and I admire your interest in BP but I feel it would be unjust to let you try this. The right bullet is key when hunting animals larger than 50lbs. Kaido Ojama makes a good bullet for such a hunt but I would start with javelinas or feral pigs to test performance and your tracking abilities. JMO

 

[Smokerr]

Jedidiah:

I appreciate your posting and the contribution though this really is not supposed to drift off into all those issues, this thread a gap in that is it reasonable to carry a BP as SD (no, not in this day and age, but the OP does not want to hear that).

But the other aspect is, sometimes justice is served (or the clean up part). As we saw in Florida, a guy was allowed to stalk a victim, shoot him under the so called Stand Your Ground Law (I am a full on retreat if possible).

We had one in our city as well. Someone got the wrong apartment door and the occupant shot the person through the door and got off.

Another guy went out to confront a drunk on his lawn, which then triggered an attempted assault and a death by the property owner. Also got off.

And in one case an Airport Cop chased a guy 15 miles, way out of his jurisdiction of course, pursued him through the woods and shot him in the back (skinny 130 lbs kid, just scared who had done a miner traffic violation on airport lands). Cop got off, also fired but the kid was dead and no justice could make that up.

You are right in that its a serious risk and we can hope the authorities apply the right aspect of the law but its also sadly true it does not always happen. Most DA that I have seen are only interested in slam dunk cases. I do think if they had the balls (pun intended) to take many cases to a jury the jury would convict.

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

Those .452 acp bullets will most likely get all bungled up during the loading thus giving very poor performance. I realize your 18 and I admire your interest in BP but I feel it would be unjust to let you try this. The right bullet is key when hunting animals larger than 50lbs. Kaido Ojama makes a good bullet for such a hunt but I would start with javelinas or feral pigs to test performance and your tracking abilities. JMO

Could cast it harder and use it as a normal non expanding projectile that would tumble quite well. I could also make an adapter on my out of gun loader to fit inside the hp to not damage it. Could also put something like a bb it the tip when loading. A 200gn tumblig 45 is just fine and debatable better than a kaido. I also have plenty of flat and round nose molds. Including a round nose 220gn and a very nice 250gn flat nose. But I'm just 18. I shot a deer with a 120gn 3030 going 2000fps. He didn't run fell where he stood. Took out 2 vertebra and dropped like a rock. Was a frount on hit. I was worried about the sternum causing problems with angles and deflecting. So I dropped it about 2 inches down from his nose with him looking dead at me. But hey it's not a 270 and I'm just 18. Actually 15 at the time. Oh and if you are worried about the size of a 45acp I have sizing dyes.