BP gets bump due to modern ammo$$?

[jamesthomas]

I don't think there has been a rise in the number of black powder shooters, but I think those that have traditional rifles are pulling them out of the closet and dusting them off due to some of the ammo shortages.

I think that if reloading components continue to be scarse then those using inlines having to use primers for ignition will think again about buying something that uses caps...or perhaps flints.

LD

I believe your "kinda" wrong about the rise of black powder shooters. TVM (Matt Advance) wait times have gone up from 6 months or so to 9 months for a rifle, and Charles Burton of FCI barrel has a wait time of 6 to 8 months, and if you special order a rifle from Tip Curtis you will have a wait of about a year. This says to me the interest in muzzleloaders has gone up.

 

[smoothshooter]

I don't think it will be the cost that will cause interest to decline, but the social stigma that is, and will be attached more and more to anyone that likes to shoot - let alone anyone who would glorify the frontier culture and it's implements that facilitated genocide against our native peoples ......., you get my drift . I know not all children are raised and taught in school to think like this, but a rapidly growing majority are.It's easy to say, " Not in my local school system ! " Better think again. Have your children or grandchildren bring home some of their study materials or assignments for social studies, history, or English classes once in a while, and look them over. You might get an unpleasant surprise. One weekend homework assignment given to middle school students in the nearby Springfield, MO public schools was " If you were a a Prosecutor in the late 1490's, what crimes would you charge Columbus with ? " And this is in an area of the country that is politically pretty conservative. So you can imagine what kinds of ideas are being drilled into the minds of the millions of students who graduate high school and college each year to become voters in the more liberal / socialist parts of the country.

 

[FishDFly]

"I believe your "kinda" wrong about the rise of black powder shooters. TVM (Matt Advance) wait times have gone up from 6 months or so to 9 months for a rifle, and Charles Burton of FCI barrel has a wait time of 6 to 8 months, and if you special order a rifle from Tip Curtis you will have a wait of about a year. This says to me the interest in muzzleloaders has gone up."


One or 2 builders and one barrel maker does not make a market nor indicate a significant increase in interest.

I have a feeling that the increase in wait times is more caused by a lack of places where folks can get a "new" gun. T/C dropped traditional guns and Lyman's reputation is not helping them at all.

More and more clubs are experiencing drops in membership and many have folded.

Lack of available BP, caps and molds does not help either.

If it was not for the internet propping up sales of BP things, the interest in BP shooting would really crash. If you can not buy supplies, BP guns will be about as useful as fence posts.

Social issues have a great impact as well.

 

[wpjson]

I will not be put out if the monitor deletes this comment, but I think the polarization of our beloved country is in part resposible for your feelings. I have taken several political moderates and liberals shooting. They love MLs. They feel uncomfortable in many gun shops so do not participate at a level they would like. Views on historical events change by generation or location. Growing up in SW Montana and going to a one room school with a conservative father, I was taught that General Custer was a fool and pretty well got what he deserved. That was back in the 1950s. While friends in North Dakota were taught Custer was a hero. I think we have to try and keep political views out of the sport/hobby. I know it is difficult but sports like bowling or skiing do not carry the political baggage ours does.

 

[FishDFly]

Smoothshooter has insight.

 

[necchi]

I don't think it will be the cost that will cause interest to decline, but the social stigma that is, and will be attached

A very good point. Those of us that are in and part of this hobby and shooting sports can tend to be a bit unaware or out of touch with the subliminal work of the anti's.
Sure we can argue/defend when it's an obvious or direct attack. My sister is a good example, she's long since accepted that my brother and I are shooters and hunters,, but her two children where never allowed to handle firearms and now the same with her grandchildren.

One weekend homework assignment given to middle school students in the nearby Springfield, MO public schools was " If you were a Prosecutor in the late 1490's, what crimes would you charge Columbus with ? "

I'd charge him with Trespass, Theft, Conspiracy to Defraud,, there's a bunch of others stuff I'm sure!!

 

[Wes/Tex]

" If you were a a Prosecutor in the late 1490's, what crimes would you charge Columbus with ? "

Being the first Democrat! To wit:
When he left, he didn't know where he was going.
When he got there, he didn't know where he was.
When he got back, he didn't know where he'd been.
And he did it all on somebody else's money! :thumbsup:

 

[azmntman]

:rotf:

 

[Col. Batguano]

The shooting of ML'ers isn't the deterring factor, but the hassle in cleaning them that is. And, to do it right you have to spend some time on it. Yes, it's only 10-15 minutes, but it IS 10-15 minutes. I completely disassemble my guns each time in order to do it "right". then the parts have to completely dry, so that means coming back to them afterwards. You HAVE to jump on it right away, whereas with a cartridge gun (unless you are shooting corrosive ammo) it can wait a while. And a cleaning job is done in just a short time.

 

[smoothshooter]

I will very respectfully disagree with keeping politics out of our hobby. We had better get involved with politics, because the other side's politicians are involved with us. The main reason our side keeps taking it in the shorts is that we are the perfect target for the liberal socialists: we are ill - informed, too polite, and won't stand up and fight back.

 

[azmntman]

There is a political part here?

But that said I am not offended by anything read here and if I get that way it's cuz somebody is il informed. I can stand stupid but not stuborn and stupid. When I married my wife had never shot a gun and within three years she had a fat lil doe and REALLY fat cow elk under her belt (cow weighed 335 lbs BONELESS cut wrapped and frozen and was standing by a very big six point bull and dwarfed him!) ff :redface:

 

[buzz]

Couple guys i know used make fun of me shooting bp more then brass but once they foind out theres a special season for bp and the costs are less and more challenging they got inlines but they are both regretting listening to the sales clerk over me

 

[RedFeather]

It was mentioned that maybe inline shooters would have a hard time finding 209 primers, if I read that right. Seems those are all I can find. Went into two local gun shops ("LGS") and still no caps. First shop had only a few bottles of smokeless on hand and they said they can't get any more. I was consigning several .22's I don't shoot much. The second LGS was going to handle two that I priced pretty cheap, just to move them. Clerk called me back over to the counter and said oh, I forgot we have a fifty dollar minimum fee. Ended up putting the rifles back into my car. I think they changed their minds about selling them since much of the existing consignment stock has been on the racks since at least Christmas, especially rimfires. No one's buying them due to lack of ammo. Carry this over to muzzle loaders. If there are no caps or powder in stock, who's going to buy a gun they can't shoot? Especially when a Lyman or Pedersoli costs more than a fairly decent .223, etc, ammo for which is now on the shelf? Now I'm glad I've got air rifles!

 

[glw]

Here in the Tulsa area, I've been to two ranges. The indoor range will not allow me to bring in my black powder guns - no reason given.

The other is a nice outdoor range but nobody in the office had ever seen a traditional gun like mine.

There is a very nice club nearby where they do some cowboy action shooting so perhaps that's where all the BP folks are.

I also met up with another club that meets up for shoots out in the woods northeast of here and they were very nice folks but they had all been shooting together for many years - I was the only new guy to have shown up in years.

I get a lot of comments like "in the time it takes you to load once, I could unload 30 rounds!" As if the point is to lay down covering fire. I don't understand the fun of just pulling a trigger as fast as I can - perhaps that's the influence of video games.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I'm not sure waiting lists on custom muzzleloading rifles is the same yardstick as folks getting "into" muzzleloading, as it may be that the folks who once owned factory guns are simply going a step farther and getting semi-custom or custom guns... because they have aged and now they can do so... kids are gone, out of school ect.

I don't know that many "newbies" who opt for semi-custom guns as a beginning point.

I think the fact that the average Thompson Center traditional rifle or Lyman traditional rifle, used, doesn't seem to fail to get a buyer might be an indication in an uptick in newer shooters... but that would be nationwide, as opposed to what I've seen at several of my local ranges..



LD

 

[buzz]

I think TC CVA lyman guns are in a price range that allows folks get into the hobby and still eat
I refinished couple cva's few years ago had them for sale
No offers i got then out a week ago both sold as fast as the add was in go figure and i had raised ny price as well

 

[mooman76]

CVA stopped making traditional MLs a couple years ago. Someone else did too but the company name escapes me.

 

[jferguson]

I see less and less people shooting anything due to costs. While BP is still less than hi power centerfire, shooting BP shotguns is actually a lot more expensive than modern. Lead shot the same cost.Black powder 16 dollars a lb/red dot 8 dollars a lb. Bp 75 grain/ reddot 18 grain!, Percusion caps $7.50/100 209 primers 19.00/1000!So while the 22 and 22/250 sit so do the BP shotguns. :idunno:

I went to my local Bass Pro two days ago, and 100 count #11 caps were 9.29/100, Goex lb was 25.99, and the Pyrodex was $23/lb. Is that a ripoff, or is my area here in SE Va. just a high place to buy BP supplies? Should I have grabbed all the caps at that price? Please advise. . . .

 

[jferguson]

Growing up in SW Montana and going to a one room school with a conservative father, I was taught that General Custer was a fool and pretty well got what he deserved. (COUNTERPOINT) While friends in North Dakota were taught Custer was a hero.

That may have been true, BUT now, with this new Federal "COMMON CORE" CURRICULUM that has been adopted by most states, they will ALL be told to believe the liberal line of "guns bad, government good" from sea to shining sea. There shall be no areas that teach the traditional views, of ANY thing! All will be uniform! What will be the source of truth then, eh?

 

[jferguson]

I will very respectfully disagree with keeping politics out of our hobby. We had better get involved with politics, because the other side's politicians are involved with us. The main reason our side keeps taking it in the shorts is that we are the perfect target for the liberal socialists: we are ill - informed, too polite, and won't stand up and fight back.

THIS IS TRUE! Same problem I see with my church. Too polite to fight for what we believe, then we sit around and moan about how the country (and world) is going to the dogs, while the other side rapes the society wholesale with no resistance (with the help of the media).