Brown Bess

[wahkahchimaol.com]

How do you shoot a Pedersoli Bess accurately? Does a patched ball outshoot a paper cartridge? And finally do you actually get your eye down on the barrel like a modern gun?

 

[Rifleman1776]

How do you shoot a Pedersoli Bess accurately? Does a patched ball outshoot a paper cartridge? And finally do you actually get your eye down on the barrel like a modern gun?

I don't claim to be real good with it. Like my current fowler, I am too fixed on rifle habits to be really good. I have gotten lucky a few times. Using as a shotgun I seem to do fairly well, don't know why. Luck again maybe.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well each Bess will act a bit different, but...,

Often I have found that a properly sized, paper cartridge with a ball works well. I like a .690 ball myself and good, book quality paper. Some guys like a .715 ball and newsprint. 70-80 grains of 2Fg is fine. The cartridge should fit into the bore with ball and not bind, but not be so loose as to wiggle either.

Now to sight in a Bess, or other smoothie I have found, is you look at the front sight post. In the case of the Bess it's the bayonet lug, BUT we do have records of soldiers armed with the Bess being issued ammunition for "shooting at marks" so we know in some regiments that they did target practice with them.

Where was I...?

Oh yes..., look at the frong sight post as you shoulder your Bess. Now, you want to align the wood and tang portion of the stock, where the barrel ends and the tang continues, that flat area on top..., you want to align that flat area with the base of the front sight post. So all you should see is the very top edge of the muzzle where the front sight post is attached, and the front sight post extending upward from that point...

That gives you the elevation as you don't have a rear sight. Then simply place the top of the front sight post on the bottom of the black of the bullseye, and squeeze while concentrating on maintaining that sight picture. The front sight touching the bottom of the black on your target circle is sometimes called a "lolipop hold".

Start from there at 25 yards, then if you get a decent group, adjust your point of aim to center that group, and extend the target to 50 yards.

BTW I got the sight picture information from Muzzleloader magazine, and I believe it was an article by Mike Nesbit..., who shoots NWTG's a whole lot, and is pretty good with them.

LD

 

[Rod Lassey]

If you are interested in the Brown Bess and how closely the modern repros resemble them---or not---then you'll need this book:
http://www.gunandswordcollector.com/Templates/book pages/goldstein_mowbray_BB.html

"The Brown Bess, An Identification Guide" by Mowbray and Goldstein.


Rod

 

[feyx0006]

Don't forget that POI and POA will differ significantly between muskets, though. My bess shoots consistently low with a "lollipop" or "6 o'clock" hold. I basically have to completely cover (even beyond a center hold) the target with the bayonet lug to have a reasonable hit. Not looking to group really... Just want to have hits on target... Spray painted a small group of paper redcoats that I line up three at a time at the range... You should see the guys drooling to take a shot... Of course, I do my duty and oblige.... No... Encourage... :wink: And that works best for them as well.

 

[buzz]

715 and a ticking patch in mine works great
or 735 with new print patch
usualy run between 70 to 100 grains bepending on how i feelin
well give me the side of a barn no realy i can hit a man siloet at 50 yard all day take a bit of getten used to though
for shot i take some 31 to 36 acl balls or 000 buck and put them in a cloth wrap and load make a nice pattern
my bess will light off 2f in the pan but i usaly use 3f inthe pan most of the time

 

[spudnut]

Big Bess fan here.Ive had two Miriku that I wish I still had.Ive been shooting a first model that was offered from Narragansett arms for about 20 years with 90 gr. 2F in a paper cartridge greased with bear oil beeswax lube and it will hit dead on if held tight on target out to about 50 yrds then you have to start aiming high Hope we never part.

 

[Many Klatch]

I find that my Pedersoli Bess Carbine likes 90 to 120 grains of 2f and a .715 ball with .010 spit patching. With the 120 grain load I can hit a 36" gong at 100 yards about 3 out of 5 shots. I have split cards with it.

The service load for the Bess was somewhere between 90 and 120 grains depending on who the commanding officer was and how much was spilled into the pan.

FYI I have a reference slot cut into the tang to help with the horizontal hold.

Many Klatch

 

[Rifleman1776]

I am not a big proponent of heavy loads in something like the BB. After all, it is a thin walled musket/shotgun and not a heavy barreled rifle.
Mine did just fine with charges in the 70 gr. range. I didn't/don't anticipate hunting bruin or buff with it.

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

Even if you did, Rifleman, wouldn't a .69 ball with 70 grains of FFG be enough for everything up to and including elk? That's a lot of lead flying through the air...designed to be powerful enough to take down cavalry.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Even if you did, Rifleman, wouldn't a .69 ball with 70 grains of FFG be enough for everything up to and including elk? That's a lot of lead flying through the air...designed to be powerful enough to take down cavalry.

No. Not quite enuf. The ball I use in my BB is a .731. More better. :wink:

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

Rifleman is that with any patch at all?

 

[Rifleman1776]

Rifleman is that with any patch at all?

Oh, yes. Patched. I got my mould from DGW. It is one of the custom jobs they (used to?) make from hair straighteners. It was $12.00 when I got it.

 

[Wes/Tex]

I like the painted 'red coat' idea. Have to remember that's what those Besses were meant for. Remember too, there was no command to "aim" in the British service. It was "present" (basically raise the musket and point it over yonder) and "give fire" or just "fire". If you look closely at photos of what are now called first and second pattern Besses, the later model had straighter locks and butt configuration, even more so on the still later "India Pattern" or third pattern) said by some to prevent the tedium of "aiming" by the troops. Strategy was based on volume of firing by ranks...sort of that many balls gott's hit something! :thumbsup:

 

[pstauffer82]

Thanks for all the replies, I took my brown bess out again and got it to go off one time. However, I replaced the factory flint with an English Gun Flint from Dixie, now she won't spark as reliably. Do we have a tutorial on how to set up a flint, i.e. where it should strike the frizzen and and how to knap the flint to make it straight across? I'll have to post some pictures.

 

[satwel]

I think you are correct. I recently read a post on another board that said that Navy Arms used the Grice name on the lockplate to deter fakers.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Remember too, there was no command to "aim" in the British service.

While there was such a command in the Continental Army using the same muskets even when its documented that many Continental regiments never practiced shooting at targets, and it is well documented that ammunition was issued to British privates for "shooting at marks". The British also called the musket a "firelock", when the use of the matchlock was almost a century in the past.
:grin:
It is also documented that the British designated "marksmen" who used the same musket as the rank and file. While it was not a requirement to be able to aim and hit with the musket for the average British soldier, it was a skill that was taught.

As for reliable ignition, the Brown Bess reproduction muskets, Italian or otherwise, benefit from a lead wrap around the flint rather than leather, AND often attention as to the angle of impact of the flint on the frizzen face is needed. In some cases simply placing a small, additional strip of lead between the underside of the lead wrap the the bottom of the cock jaw, at the back of the flint where it meets the cock screw, is enough to change the angle of the edge of the flint downward in the jaws..., in other cases the cock needs minor bending.

(gee that last bit sounds "naughty" doesn't it? :redface: )

LD

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

Hi all! I am going to teach 10 archaeology students at our local university how to shoot the Brown Bess musket. They are finding the parts in their archaeological excavations of Spanish and Mexican era sites. I am planning on using the .715 ball with a newsprint cartridge...and 60 grains of FFg. I thought I'd lighten it up a bit for first time users. Any thoughts? The class is in about 2 weeks. Thanks!

 

[cynthialee]

Thoughts?
I wanna be in your class!
:grin:

Give them all the small charge to give them the lesson and offer them the chance to fire it with a propper charge if they so desire. I am sure at least one of the guys in the group will want to give it a go and you might adict one or two of them and we get more converts!

 

[Carteret Kid]

Excent teaching expereance. :thumbsup:
So Spanish were using Besses?