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Disappointed with 54 cal round ball.

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Got a side story that might interest some.
I got to watch a doctor friend of mine gut his first deer.
Very fascinating to watch him eviscerate it with a scalpel slowly taking his time curios and explaining everything as he went discovering and evaluating the damage from the projectile. It took him an hour and a half but it was the neatest gut job I have ever seen.
 
colorado clyde said:
I got to watch a doctor friend of mine gut his first deer.
I'll venture an opinion that your doctor friend would be very amused to hear some of the theories on anatomy and physiology put forward in these discussions.

Spence
 
I don't understand the purpose here!
I mean if the purpose was to harvest a game animal there is no issue.
If the purpose was a hole counting exercise then OK you got 50% of a maximum score, but why does that matter :idunno:

B.
 
Actually , that is a good shot. It means the entire energy transfered into the deer. No loss of energy as when the ball passes thru.. Dead is dead. No pass thru should not be disapointing.
In many cases it is the norm. As long as the vitals are struck you will find the deer. Most of mine do not pass thru. 75 percent of the animals fall were they were standing , 25 percent run off . All down within 75 yards at the furthest. Complete pass thru does not prove anything. I will take the round ball over a slug anytime, as long as you keep it at a reasonable range.
 
Britsmoothy said:
I don't understand the purpose here!
I mean if the purpose was to harvest a game animal there is no issue.
If the purpose was a hole counting exercise then OK you got 50% of a maximum score, but why does that matter :idunno:

B.

Britsmoothy has nicely summed things up.

I kind of find the discussion interesting after hunting for a long time.

When a critter is shot it's going to die from 1 of 4 things, lack of oxygen, lack of blood, hydraulic shock or shock itself.

I looked to see where the OP was from trying to get an idea of the size of the deer he is hunting.
Parts of the Texas Hill country the average full grown deer might weigh 60 pounds, the folks in the north have some 300 pound deer, makes a difference on penetration.

One shot, one deer does not mean much, except that the plan worked.
 
Try shooting them in the front shoulder. No tracking involved and a plus if they don't bleed.

I shot my first deer with a .54 ball over 90 grains 3f. It was a rather small doe but at 63 paces it just slammed him down right there and it passed thru.

I have been using .50 calibers in the past and always aimed behind the leg for the vitals. Usually had a bit of tracking but only once no pass thru.

I began hunting shooting a 30-30 and always shot front shoulder with it and never had one go anywhere but down. This was the first deer with my old shoulder shot with a patched ball and it too went straight down.
 
Ditto....I agree with Cyndy
.you shot a deer, it fell dead......am I missing something?
Contrary to popular tales....animals don't blow up in a puff of smoke when shot......

Well....they do when I use my Buck Roger desintigrator Ray gun, :rotf:

Marc n tomtom

PS, read up on the buff hunters of the 1800's....they WANTED to recover under the opposite hide bullet to re-melt.....lead was hard to come by......
 
Wow sorry.....

Guess I was surprised at not getting a pass through. I'm an avid archery hunter who is fortunate enough to get deer with archery gear.

As an archer, a deer runs off and you're left trailing a deer based on the blood. Usually 2 holes mean more blood. No always and many times they fall in sight.

Simply asked a question. Do many guys find/get 2 holes from their roundball 54's or is it normal to get only 1? Obviously the gun performed and so did the bullet. It's far fromy first deer with a flintlock. But all others except the one last year were taken with a 50 cal. But last year used a conical. Farther shot and pass through with more blood.

I was interested in what the others who have more experience with a 54 have seen, that's all....
 
If I was you, I'd be treasuring that round ball. It might be the only one you ever recover from deer shot with your 54. I have zackly one, recovered after shooting a good buck face-on halfway up the neck at just over 50 yards. Completely severed the spine and lodged under the hide on the back of the neck. Munched just a whole bunch of bone. Everything else I've shot with it has been a complete pass through.

All shots inside 100 yards, charge 90 grains of 3f. Interesting enough my wife only shoots 60 grains of 3f in her 54, yet we've never recovered a ball from her deer either. She keeps her shots inside 50 yards, though.
 
Many thanks!

That's what I was figuring and hoping. Thought it was unusual to NOT have the ball pass through with a 54 but wasn't sure what others have had happen. I've probably killed 20+ with a 50 and of those shot with a roundball, most didn't penetrate the other side's hide.

Thanks!
 
Not to worry. You started a thread that lots of people chimed in on.

It looks like from most of the people here pass-thru is more common. Which answers your question.

Sorry if we beat up on you for saying you were dissappointed. We're probably a bit defensive because other folks will justify their use of "high tech" on by claiming it is more ethical. Which of implies those of us who use somthing more primitive are being unethical. I've had to defend the 30-30 from people who insisted a .270 was the minimum for an ethical kill.
 
I built my .54 in the late '80s and have killed about 50 deer with it...If memory is correct, I recovered 5 balls, so that's 10%...

I don't worry about pass throughs simply because I have seen so many deer with two holes that didn't bleed, even with .270s, etc...The exit hole often gets plugged with fat, guts or other material...I watch the deer when it runs off, mark the spot where I last saw it and can usually find it within just a few yards of that spot, or track it to where it lays, not always using blood...
 
Lets recap. We have a moderator that is belittling you for not posting info that you had already posted. That's not surprising. :td:

You received several internet necropsies that are trying to figure out why the ball FAILED to penetrate and leave a second hole. Some quite elaborate. :applause:

You have also had meteorologists that have told you that your wet load might have been a problem. :idunno:

Then there is the load necropsies. they want the proof of the ball then they can decipher the load problem in reverse, all the way back to the last breath you took. :rotf:

Most are not going to like to hear what I say but here it goes.
Not getting complete penetration on this type of shot ( a perfect one ) is a failure of sorts. Yes the animal died and all is well. But if that bullet would have hit the shoulder I doubt this would have ended on a happy note.

You are a bow hunter. I am sure that you have heard that even bow and arrow combos are rated for Foot pounds of energy even though it is the broadhead that cuts that does the damage. No the energy doesn't wipe the animal out like it does with a 7 mag, but the energy is still there, and it drives the arrow in. The more energy you have the deeper it drives. Muzzleloader bullets are no different. No matter how the round ball shooters try to candy coat it energy does indeed kill. Everything that moves has energy. As archery hunters we are taught, and learn that two holes are better than one, better blood trail. I will back that up and say that two holes are indeed better than one with a muzzleloader too. :thumbsup:


A bullet that is under the skin barely got there. the bullet that bounces across the prairie got there and left it's mark,, the second hole.

The fact is that muzzleloader bullets do impact with and transfer energy. I have seen this with my own eyes. I have seen a lot of animals hit with a 460 gr conical. The skin dishes in, the animal steps sideways hair fly's in the air. Deer sometimes kick at that point some don't. Elk absorb more energy from the load than thinner skinned more lightly framed animals because of their size. But because of their size it takes more to put them down.

I don't like PRB's. If others do that is fine with me. If you like PRB's over conicals that is also fine by me. But if you want to hear what I think caused the problem read farther. :stir:

You used a Hornady PRB. Hornady's are butter soft. It is common knowledge that pure lead is 5 BHN. But my tester can measure hardness to a much finer degree. I have personally tested Hornady PRB, and conicals, CVA balls, and speer balls. I have tested a lot of lead from other bullets and other sources. Again the hornady balls are super soft. The Great Plains bullets are also just a bit harder than the grease that is on them. The other manufactures are about the same but a pinch harder. A pinch goes a long way with hardness. I have spent years testing my bullets for hardness, accuracy, and affect on game.

So what happened, why didn't it blow through? I don't know. But my first question to the guys that are getting full penetration is how hard is the lead? Were your balls homemade? If so how hard was the lead and what type of lead were they made out of? I have seen round ball hardness change from box to box that I have tested, even from the same company.

Roof flashing lead is a different hardness than pipes. Pipes are different than stick on wheel weights. Dental lead is different yet, MUCH HARDER.

A whitetail doe is not a formidable opponent for a muzzleloader bullet. The lack of a perfect shot not exiting is bothersome to me. I would not like that one bit. Ron
 
Every deer I have shot with either .50 or .54 PRB, from 15 to well over 100 yards, 70-85 grains of 2 or 3F, has been a pass-thru. Almost all were broadside chest. Only one that I remember was quartering away and steep downward angle and also resulted in a pass-thru.
I am quite surprised that you didn't get a pass-thru with that shot.
 
But my first question to the guys that are getting full penetration is how hard is the lead? Were your balls homemade? If so how hard was the lead and what type of lead were they made out of?

Mine are home cast. I buy the "pure lead" from where I work. Never tested it for hardness. If you want to, I'll send you a few.
 
.

I don't like PRB's. If others do that is fine with me. If you like PRB's over conicals that is also fine by me. But if you want to hear what I think caused the problem read farther. :stir:


Traditional ml suck as a hunting tool. Modren ml are not much better.Prb has killed all American game. Real bp, real rock in the locks, real lead round balls. You have to learn your gun and hunt within its limitations. Archers have to do the same. Its not a .50 browning from a rest at 300 yards from a portable bench. Not what I want. Learning the limitations of a maxie or Minnie or buffao and your gun that your hunting is part of the game. If that's what you want to hunt with that's fine by me. Your deer wont taste any better then mine killed with round ball. Its been 40 years since I've killed any thing with anything but a ball....some of them very tiny but an onuce of them :wink:
 
I bowhunt as well..and like you have a 54 cal Hawken.I also understand the importance of a "Complete pass thru shot" especially in bowhunting.
So my experience with the many deer that I've shot with my 54 is simply this: I have had MOSTLY complete pass through shots..but on a few occasions I have not. Thus far, 80% pass through. 20% not.
 
Here is a ball that passed through. .58 flintlock, roundball, 110 grains of Goex 2F. About 40 yards. Hit in the heart, the buck jumped in the air and ran about 50 yards, stopped, staggered and fell down. I marked him down, so did Carl and Carole through their 12X binocs. No blood trail. Took us about 10 minutes to find him in the sagebrush. The photo shows the exit side. I know this is not your .54, but I could tell you a .54 buck kill story from this same area about 8 years ago, but won't.

 
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