disturbing statistics?

[TANSTAAFL]

lots of BP cartridge & cowboy shooters, some are true die hards who will use nothing but the holy shiny black.

 

[roundball]

Good one !!

 

[n8dawg6]

Nevermind, O'Shea beat me to the punch:

"Now, I'll share one of my predictions. In the not so distant future, the vast majority of muzzleloading hunters will grow weary of traditionally oriented regulations and will begin to demand that game departments closely scrutinize the effectiveness of old-style rifles and round ball loads. A few states have already established minimum acceptable energy levels for modern center-fire rifles and cartridge handguns. So, it isn't beyond the realm of reality for some departments to begin establishing minimum allowable energy levels for a muzzle-loaded rifle and load to be used on big game. And if any game department required just 800 foot-pounds of energy at 100 yards, which should be considered minimum, not many round ball rifles and loads would make the cut.
"

Slightly different tactic, but y'all see where this is going. Here's the link: http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/update.html

HistoryBuff

just read this link. i liked the letter much better than i liked o'shea's response. here's something i found interesting:

"Ever wonder why Pennsylvania is the ONLY state to conduct a "flintlock only" muzzleloading season?"

i have wondered. i think it'd be great to have one in MS. maybe they could add flintlocks to a week or two of the archery season. and, as to the abysmal 8% success rate he mentions, i can't imagine that the archery success rate is any better. and, unless im terribly mistaken, PA still has a flintlock season, eh? and isn't the "modern" muzzleloader season in PA antlerless only still?

and, since im on a roll here, why not just create a special season where you have to use a modern single-shot cartridge rifle with ballistics similar to the savage muzzleloader? i mean, seriously, why bother loading it from the muzzle? if herd management is the only goal, who gives a d--- if your 200 yard rifle is loaded from the muzzle? (don't laugh, it appears that MS may already be doing this. for the 2005-06 deer season, smokeless cartridge rifles of over .38 caliber were legalized during the "primitive" seasons. everybody is buying h&r 45-70's)

 

[T-bone]

How does someone like Bridges and O'Shea justify speacial seasons for inline rifles that have the same optics and ballistics as modern centerfire rifles?

Why not just eliminate the special seasons altogether, there's no longer anything "special" about the original seasons.
If the game departments main objective is simply to manage game populations, they could easily lengthen the regular rifle seasons in order to do so.

Take away the "incentive" to use modern inlines, and the modern inlines will most certainly disappear.

T-bone

 

[jethro224]

I recently read an article in (I think) Deer and Deer Hunting where (I'm pretty sure it was) Toby was grading states on their muzzleloader seasons.
A state had to allow in-lines, scopes, powder subs and saboted pistol bullets to pass.
The article was all indignant about these things not being allowed in some states. Claimed that states that don't allow them are borderline unethical for not allowing the most efficient means of killing a deer.
I think I'll write them a letter and TRY to explain that the muzzleloading season is not about killing the most deer at the longest ranges. It is supposed to be about the challenge of getting close to the game and taking a deer with a PRIMITIVE weapon. Otherwise there wouldn't even be a special muzzleloader season.

I read the same article in D&DH...I was disgusted by it and tried to find a contact on the D&DH website to send a hot Email to D&DH but was not successful...it's all about money, not character or morals...people do it all the time...example: Knight's inline poster boy Jim Shockey is now TC's inline Poster Boy...

I brought my issue of D&DH home from work this evening. The article is in the December 2005 issue.

"E-mail your "Readers Recoil" letter to D&DH Editor Daniel Schmidt at [email protected] "

I think I will. :hmm:

 

[Stumpkiller]

I just mailed the following to his e-mail address off the site:

I’m almost unable to grasp your whole premise of “high performance muzzleloading”. Why? Isn’t the purpose of hunting with a muzzleloader to INCREASE the challenge and prove to yourself that you are the reason for success and not technology? I hunt with patched round balls from a flintlock and try to get within 40 yards of whitetail. If I had to resort to 200 yard shots it would be because I failed at something. I pass up long or running shots all the time. That’s because I accept the limitations of my muzzleloader. I like it so much I use mine even during the regular season.

Many things have been invented since 1800 that will help you harvest game efficiently. You don’t need to drag “muzzleloading” along if you desire high performance.

 

[Claude Mathis]

Here is another good one: http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/Books3.html

And a quote: "The Godfather of muzzleloaders, Toby Bridges,"

I'm sorry. I can't get enough of the comedy show. I'm ROTFLMAO :rotf:

HistoryBuff

For what it's worth, every time you visit his web site, you increase his hit rating, his advertisers love you and he thanks you. :grin:

 

[3 stinky dogs]

And every time you bring it back here you just bring back the trouble that got the In line forum banned and other members booted. How about we just let it go and discuss other things ?

 

[HistoryBuff]

Good point. I do believe I've seen enough.

HistoryBuff

 

[Stumpkiller]

Here is another good one: http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/Books3.html

And a quote: "The Godfather of muzzleloaders, Toby Bridges,"

I'm sorry. I can't get enough of the comedy show. I'm ROTFLMAO :rotf:

HistoryBuff

For what it's worth, every time you visit his web site, you increase his hit rating, his advertisers love you and he thanks you. :grin:

We are pilgrims in an unholy land.

Mr. Bridges & Mr. O'Shea are apparantly beyond reasoning with and I doubt any of my insightful observations I provided will be posted on their site. :cursing: Loud and stupid carries the day, once again.

Do you suppose his advertisers sell flintlocks?

 

[Stumpkiller]

Well Charlie,

You seem to have a pretty good grasp of the situation.
Let's see, in this country muzzleloading progressed from the flintlock rifle in the late 1700s...to percussion ignition by 1820...to bigger bore rifles like the Hawken half-stock by the 1830s...and to longer range bullet rifles by the end of the 1840s.
And right along with the later development of these "muzzleloaders" were the early telescopic rifles sights...which saw their greatest refinement right there in New York state - the "Wm. Malcolm" scopes that were introduced in 1855.

Muzzleloading has always and will always continue to change. If you ONLY shoot and hunt with a traditional styled rifle...you, my friend, are part of a very distinct minority. 90-plus percent of muzzleloading shooters and hunters all across the U.S. now prefer a modern in-line rifle, saboted bullet and scope sight.

Last time I checked, a democracy was based on the will of the majority of the people.

Toby

The 'ol Dumb and Loud in large numbers defense.

Greetings Mr. Bridges,

Guess I should have been more specific. I clicked on the nearest "contact us" link after I read the quotes from Mr. O'Shea on your website that states

 

[ossabaw]

I grew up in south Texas and have first hand knowledge of the trophy industry. For much of the hunting public, the object is to shoot something. The more the technology, the more confident they feel. The thought of going out and not getting an animal actually scares some people. A friend of mine was lamenting the fact that his sons didn't care about hunting. Yet, when he goes to his farm, it is to "kill something". When killing becomes the object, then is a day in the woods without something in the back of the truck a failure? I think that most of the people on this forum hunt because we want to be outdoors and get close to the game. For us to try and explain why we hunt with traditional equipment is like trying to put into words how we feel about a great piece of curly maple.

 

[Claude Mathis]

And every time you bring it back here you just bring back the trouble that got the In line forum banned and other members booted. How about we just let it go and discuss other things ?

Yes. :thumbsup: