Dry Ball

[mccarthy.tf]

I took the boy shooting Saturday I shot my ML while he shot his .22 Well I threw a ball down without the powder. Then Broke the ramrod with the ball puller trying to pull the ball out. I tried to push it out with a compressor no luck. Suggestions?

 

[Rifleman1776]

This is commonly discussed here, do a search for past posts.
First, if it is a percussion, remove the nipple and dribble some powder, preferably 4Fg, into the breech and try to shoot out.
If flint, pick as much powder as you can into the touchhole and try to shoot out.
If that fails, you need another ramrod, preferably an unbreakable one (stainless steel, brass, Delrin, etc.) with a screw tip and try to pull.
And/or find or buy a CO2 gas discharger.

 

[hockeyref]

This one's going to be more fun than usual since I assume that part of the ramrod is still attached to the ball puller and is snapped off in the barrel. What is the shape of the break in the rod? Square or angled and following the grain? If you can get a hollow tube over the end of the broken rod (Undersized and out of round or kinda flattened so as to grab the rod), you might be able to unscrew it from the ball puller and then use a good range rod to yank it out... if not then your efforts will concentrate from the breech end....
Could be an "easy pull" or a real PITA...

 

[mccarthy.tf]

Last week I was all set to order the CO2 discharger and thought.. No it's Christmas I should wait.. Yes the ball puller and the brass tip of the ramrod is still in the ball. I was going to dump some powder in under the nipple and try that but I started to think what if it's not enough to get the ball out? Where is all that pressure gonna go? I thought I'd come here for some more advice before I went that route. I was kinda surprised that the compressor at 90 and 100 PSI did not do the trick. There was a little (very little) air leaking at the seal but I thought I would still work.
I was using the unbreakable rod (aluminum) at first but it wasn't long enough to leave me anything but my finger tips to yank the ball out.

 

[George T.]

Yeah we have all done that a time or three! A couple of years ago I was able to watch a CO2 discharger in action and that was enough to get one ordered the next day. One think I have found is that the ball needs to be all the way down the barrel. if you managed to get it partially out push it back down.They not only make the job easier on the shooter but they save wear and tear on the firearns as well.

On a cap lock you can unscrew the nipple and work a small amount of powder into the fireing channel. It doesn't take much. You can turn a flintlock on it's side and with a vent pick work small amounts of 4F in the vent hole.

I got my discharger from Dixie Gun Works. Geo. T.

 

[Billnpatti]

I assume you want to keep the part that is stuck in your barrel. So all you need is a zerk fitting with the same threads as the nipple on your gun. Replace the nipple with the zerk fitting and use a grease gun to push the ball out. Then all you have to do is clean the grease out of your bore. Sure it's a bit messy but you will save the part of your ramrod and tip that is stuck in your bore. If saving that part is of no concern, just remove the nipple, dribble a bit of powder into your gun, seat the ball on the charge (very important) and shoot it out. You don't need very much powder, 10 or so grains will do the job nicely. If you have a sand bank into which you can shoot the stuck ball, you may be able to retrieve the rammer tip.

For future reference, get a good brass or steel range rod with a "T" handle. When you dry ball the next time, and there will be a next time because we all do it, some just won't admit it, you can stick the "T" handle in the crotch of a tree annd pull out the stuck ball. Still, I prefer to shoot it out but if you prefer to pull the ball using a rod, a metal range rod with a "T" handle is your answer. Being able to put the "T" handle in the crotch of a tree means that you won't have anybody in front of the muzzle of the gun and you don't need any help because you can do it all by yourself.

 

[mccarthy.tf]

Thanks for the advice all. I'm gonna order the discharger depending on how long that takes to get here. (I will need it anyways) I will try a zirc fitting or put the powder under the nipple. I'm also going to make me a couple new range rods. I thought I was good with the rod I had. I just didn't think how short it would be if I didn't have a charge behind the ball :redface:

 

[M. De Land]

The trouble with shooting them out if the ball puller is still in the ball is buggering or scratching the lands and grooves, even with a brass fitting. The ball screw will still be made of steel and you don't know if it went all the way through and out the back. The safest way is pulling the breech plug and drive it out from the rear with a taped steel rod and a hemisphere cut in the end, in my opinion.
Another option is to take the barrel out of the stock and heat it up until the ball melts out.This of course with the breech plug and powder removed. The heat from a propane torch will not hurt a good blue job and is enough to melt the ball. I know this from having hand lapped blued barrels where lead lap slugs have to be poured into the barrel. MD

 

[Eljay]

Just a note on those CO2 things - they basically shoot the ball out like they were... shooting it out. Please point the thing in some sensible direction.

They do work, by the way. I got to, um, practice that recently.

 

[Rat Trapper]

If you fired the gun, you need to get it cleaned! I would not wait for a co2 discharger to arrive in the mail. Way easier to pull nipple and pour some powder under it and work it into the barrel and shoot a dry ball than to pull it.
Get yourself a good range rod with a "T" handle and a nylon bore guide.

 

[10_point]

I to agree with removing the nipple and pour a little powder and tap it in , and keep doing this till you have enough to send the ball out, i know i did this to.

It also took me a couple times to get it out, seeing you have a puller on it, just shoot it into some sand or a pile of old rags, it will catch it and not mess up the puller if it is of value to you.. just keep at it it will shoot out ok, GOOD LUCK...............

 

[Mark Black]

I agree with all of the things said here except pulling the breech plug. Under NO circumstances should you de-breech the gun. Depending on the age and condition of the breech threads, you could open yourself up to a whole other set of problems than just a stuck ball...I've never heard of trying to melt the ball out with a torch. Seems like a lot of work, what with all the cooled lead residue and all.... :stir:

 

[seleach]

I had my first 'dry ball' incident this past June (coincidentally, I started shooting muzzleloaders in June!?? :hmm: ). Someone bailed me out by showing me what several others have mentioned - remove the nipple a sprinkle some 4F into the breech and firing the ball out (making sure the ball was seated properly first). This kind soul must have been a prophet because he left me a small vial of the magic elixir, which, of course, came in handy a few weeks later!

You have to sprinkle the 4F into the drum, then tap the side of the rifle to get it into the breech and repeat a few times. The nipple threads get full of powder and you have to clean them out to get the nipple screwed back in cleanly. It gets the job done for sure, but I made a slight modification. I discovered that the neck of an empty .17HMR case fits nicely into the nipple hole and from there I 'created' what I call my Dry Ball Syndrome Reliever!

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I put a few grains of 4F in the case and plug it up with a piece of leather with a string through it. When you need it just remove the nipple, pull the string, insert the case neck and tap away. I carry a few extras in my kit in case someone else 'catches' the syndrome too!

Hmm, I wonder what old Jim Bridger would think about that .17HMR round? Probably not much! :shake: :youcrazy: :rotf:

 

[M. De Land]

So you would rather take a chance on scoring or possibly ringing the bore from a potentially partially pulled ball by shooting it out because your afraid to remove a breech plug or patten breech and push it out? I'm referring to a ball with a broken rod end and ball puller attached.
Do you think a competent gunsmith would shoot it out knowing very well what could happen? I think not!He would simply remove the plug and powder and push it out with a metal rod with a counterbore or hemisphere cut in the end to capture the ball screw point (if through the ball) and secure it from turning into the barrel wall as it's being pushed out.
If were talking about a simple dry ball than by all means shoot it out as described.MD

 

[seleach]

OBTW, I would not do this with the ramrod still screwed to the ball. I'd try what hockeyref suggested before I removed the breech plug and if that didn't work I still wouldn't remove it - I'd leave that to a gunsmith. Just my 2¢ worth.

 

[Ron_T.]

I took the boy shooting Saturday I shot my ML while he shot his .22 Well I threw a ball down without the powder. Then Broke the ramrod with the ball puller trying to pull the ball out. I tried to push it out with a compressor no luck. Suggestions?

***************************************

When I first began shooting muzzle-loaders, I was the "dry ball KING". I managed to "dry ball" my muzzle loader (flintlock) EVERY time I went to the range!!! However, I solved my "dry ball" problem with one simple step.

Since I use a cut patch when loading my rifle, cutting the patch ends up making a nice, round hole, one after another, in the strip of cotton blue jean denim material I use for patching material.

I merely began "hooking" the round hole left in the strip of patching material over the end of the pouring spout commonly-made from a .222 or .223 caliber cartridge case with the base of the case drilled out and the cartridge case pushed through and soldered to a hole made through a Goex can screw-on cap that I screw onto an open can of Goex black powder.

Such soldered-on, screw-on Goex powder can caps with a .223 cartridge case soldered through them are very commonly used by black powder shooters. I got mine (2 of 'em, in fact) from one of the vendors down at Friendship during the big Spring Rendezvous held in June several years ago.

These "caps" have a spring-loaded "lever" which covers the opening in the mouth of the cartridge case when you are not pouring powder from the Goex powder can thus making such an "arrangement" as SAFE as possible in keeping any hot sparks or a flame from entering the pouring spout's "mouth".

These "pouring spouts" are hand-made and cost only a few dollars at practically any large rendezvous that has vendors selling their wares.

Buy one or two of these handy devices and "hook" the large, round hole left in the strip of patching material over the end of the powder-pouring spout as a "reminder"... and you won't be ABLE to put a patch under the rifle ball without seeing the can of black powder sitting there and removing the strip of patching cloth from the powder can's pouring spout.

Just noticing the powder can was enough of a "hint" to make me remember to put the POWDER in the barrel FIRST... THEN lube and cut the patch under the rifle ball and push the patched rifle ball down the barrel with the short starter and finish off seating the patched rifle ball with your range-rod. :v

The honest truth is... since I began using this method I've described above, I haven't had a single "dry ball incident"... YET!!! And I've been doing it this way for the past four years.

One other "anti-dry ball hint"... don't TALK to other people when you're loading your muzzle-loader. Concentrate on LOADING your black powder muzzle-loader FIRST... and then, once loaded, you can chat all you wish.

:thumbsup: ... make GOOD smoke!!!


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

 

[ChrisPer]

One other "anti-dry ball hint"... don't TALK to other people when you're loading your muzzle-loader. Concentrate on LOADING your black powder muzzle-loader FIRST... and then, once loaded, you can chat all you wish.

Yes. :thumbsup:

 

[Rifleman1776]

I agree with all of the things said here except pulling the breech plug. Under NO circumstances should you de-breech the gun. Depending on the age and condition of the breech threads, you could open yourself up to a whole other set of problems than just a stuck ball...I've never heard of trying to melt the ball out with a torch. Seems like a lot of work, what with all the cooled lead residue and all.... :stir:

I agree with you. I did not respond to M.D. because we recently rode that merry-go-round with him. Not good advice, IMHO.

 

[Rifleman1776]

One other "anti-dry ball hint"... don't TALK to other people when you're loading your muzzle-loader. Concentrate on LOADING your black powder muzzle-loader FIRST... and then, once loaded, you can chat all you wish.

Very excellent advice. On the range, a lot of shooters have a rythm or, almost mantra, they go through when reloading. Do not disturb. :nono:
Especially at the bench rest or slug gun ranges. Those guys zone out so seriously an interruption can bring some real.....ah.....emotional....reactions. :shocked2: :shake:

 

[mccarthy.tf]

One other "anti-dry ball hint"... don't TALK to other people when you're loading your muzzle-loader. Concentrate on LOADING your black powder muzzle-loader FIRST... and then, once loaded, you can chat all you wish.

Exactly what happened. The boy was done shooting and asking the million questions 8 year olds do. Then he said. "Hey your getting good you loaded that one fast." That's when I realized what I had just done. :haha: