Dry balling - why won't it come out??

[Black Hand]

By now the ball has such a big hole in it the ball puller may not grab the ball.
Quite buying more rods and jags just take out the breech plug , and get it ALL out. Make sure the breech plug is square with the flats when putting it back

Removing the breechplug should the the last thing you do and it should be done by a competent gunsmith familiar with muzzleloading guns.

 

[appalichian hunter]

As black hand stated find a decent ball puller (you may have to get or make the largest screw type puller you can find) and a good steel range rod with a securely attached handle, Pour about a cup of hot water down the barrel, let the water soak for few minutes, make sure the screw on the puller is firmly set in the ball, next take a 5 ft. piece of 1/4in rope using half hitches (2) tie to the end of the rod exiting the muzzle tight to where the rod handle attaches to the rod, tie the other end to something that will not move such as a tree or sturdy fence post at waist level and hold the weapon at your waist now walk backwards keeping steady pressure on the rope. Do not jerk the weapon just steady pressure. As a safety officer for my civil war unit I have pulled many rammers when the troopers were cleaning weapons in this method (not balls) but this always worked. Even now when hunting or range shooting the black powder weapons I carry the rope in my kit. If that will not work find a competent black powder gun smith to pull the breech.

 

[Black Hand]

...find a decent ball puller (you may have to get or make the largest screw type puller you can find)...

Fortunately, one can purchase (for a small price), double-ended screws of various lengths from the hardware store. They have machine-screw threads (8/32 or 10/32 should be available) on one end to fit the rammer and wood threads (of different lengths and diameters) on the other end to screw into the ball. You will need to make a leather doughnut to serve as a centering tool, but there is no reason why you can't use a screw to remove the ball. Do make certain the threaded end is pinned to the rammer before proceeding.

 

[8 BORE]

Its a wonder nobody has told you to take a cutting torch and heat up the barrel until the lead pours out.
In 24 hours from now they will still have you messing with rods and ball pullers.
JUST TAKE OUT THE BREECH PLUG

 

[Britsmoothy]

You can't beat making a steel T bar with a screw welded to it for such an occasion.
Especially with enough T to put both feet on!
This is another reason I advocate time proven lubrication and thumb started loads.

Failing to pop it out with powder and a welded steel T bar ball puller is at hand you can keep tipping boiling water in and out until the barrel is near boiling hot.
With T bar screwed in the ball and T clamped pull the gun back and forth until out.

You panicked brother and many of us have. Last time I did it I managed to trickle some powder in the vent and pop the swine out.

At times like these take a deep breath, look at your options, forget your options, go home, source a welder, suitable steel bar, a sharp screw and get fabricating the ultimate bad ass ball puller.
When done stash the puller in the car!

 

[Britsmoothy]

Oh, and penertrating oil turns black powder residue into a thick sticky tar.
Water turns it into a slippy slippy like substance!

 

[Boomerang]

#1 Take the nipple out.
#2 Take a can of carburetor cleaner and with the little spray tube, flush out the oil residue in the breech real good.
#3 Blow out the breech with your air compressor to dry it out good.
#4 Poor black powder in the hole and keep tapping the rifle until you can't get any more in.
#5 Replace the nipple and fire a cap in a safe direction.
#6 Repeat as necessary if ball didn't come out the first time.

 

[Black Hand]

#1 Take the nipple out.
#2 Take a can of carburetor cleaner and with the little spray tube, flush out the oil residue in the breech real good.
#3 Blow out the breech with your air compressor to dry it out good.
#4 Poor black powder in the hole and keep tapping the rifle until you can't get any more in.
#5 Replace the nipple and fire a cap in a safe direction.
#6 Repeat as necessary if ball didn't come out the first time.

#4.5 Make certain you SEAT the ball before trying to shoot it out.

 

[Black Hand]

Its a wonder nobody has told you to take a cutting torch and heat up the barrel until the lead pours out.
In 24 hours from now they will still have you messing with rods and ball pullers.
JUST TAKE OUT THE BREECH PLUG

You make this sound as if removing the plug is as easy as brushing your teeth. It isn't and the person unfamiliar has more a chance of screwing up in a detrimental and lasting manner.

 

[Robby]

Put the rod in the vice, put your foot against the vice, grab the barrel and pull with all you got. It will either come out or the threads will tear out. If it doesn't come, pull the breech plug and simply tap it out. With all the time spent so far you could have done that and been shooting again.
The grease gun is effective but messy, the cleanup will take longer than than pulling and reinstalling the plug.Its really not a big deal, happens to everybody, if not, your not shooting enough, hah!
Robby

 

[Melnic]

Like already mentioned. Grease gun works

I can not remember the exact details but with a sidelock I had, I had bunched up my patch and I could not for the life of me push the ball all the way down. (I think I was patch cutting). I could not pull it out either. I had 80grains of powder loaded and the ball about 4" from the muzzle. I did not want to shoot it out for fear of bulging the barrel near the muzzle. As mentioned above, I purchased some grease fittings (grease fitting assortment kit) and a grease gun at Harbor Freight and some extra grease tubes. Pull nipple, find the grease fitting that matched threading and install it. It just took some time but sure enough it pumped the ball out. I needed the grease gun for some trailer bearings anyway. Someone had suggested using bulk hand lotion next time as it cleans up easier and when your done, your hands are silky smooth .

Good Luck

 

[8 BORE]

Hook the grease gun up to a 300 psi air compressor something will give

 

[8 BORE]

You make this sound as if removing the plug is as easy as brushing your teeth. It isn't and the person unfamiliar has more a chance of screwing up in a detrimental and lasting manner.

All your posts on this thread would take forever with making all these rods and jags. Take out the breech plug 30 minutes start to finish. Been there done that.

 

[Black Hand]

All your posts on this thread would take forever with making all these rods and jags. Take out the breech plug 30 minutes start to finish. Been there done that.

I never said to make a rod or jag. What I did say is spend 25 cents at the hardware store for a double-ended screw and pull the ball out (OK, maybe making a bore-sized leather washer to center the screw in the bore might be a little out of the wheel-house of some individuals, but only if they can't draw a circle and use a cutting implement like shears or utility knife). Low-tech and doesn't require any special tools.
Remember that not everyone has the obviously extensive and expansive knowledge of all things muzzleloading that you have and there are quicker and decidedly better options to what you have suggested.

Pulling the breechplug to remove a stuck ball is much like removing the engine from a car to change the spark plugs. There are many simpler and more direct methods that take less time/effort and reduce the chance of royally buggering things up to the point where a gunsmith WILL be required.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Some years back, I was in the same situation. No powder and the ball was firmly lodged at the breech of my Derringer rifle. First ball puller stripped out. No problem as I rummaged through my selection of double ended bangers (machine threaded on one end and wood threaded on the other). I have the 8, 10 , and 12 and I stripped them all out. At this time all I could get with the compressed air was a rush of air out the muzzle. Since I had the hole through the ball I knew that the grease pump solution was not the one to employ. The rifle was one I had built and breeched, so I had the wrenches to properly remove the breech and the heavy rod to drive the offending ball out.

When I posted my problem and solution, I got all the above arguments against pulling the breech plug. I do agree that pulling the breech plug is the last option to choose. The rifle in question, a Lyman Deerstalker, will have a breech plug installed to a level that most mere mortals will not be able to budge. A batter vise with formed jaws to hold but not damage the barrel is required. A large wrench that fits the breech plug a d a long cheater bar will be needed to remove and replace the breech plug. If the OP takes his rifle to have the plug removed, it should be to a black powder gunsmith.

Since the ball has been moved back to the breech and if the latest round of powder in the breech to shoot it out fails, then it would be time to screw the ball puller into the ball, use application of high pressure air or get the grease gun to use the pressure from the grease gun to remove the ball.

Lessons learned:
1. I should have tried feeding powder through the vent to shoot the ball out. My first choice with percussion guns is to shoot the ball out. Since I built the rifle, I knew how little space was behind the ball and I didn't have confidence with that method in a flint lock.

2. I should have drilled a pilot hole in the ball to prevent the ball pulling screw from expanding the ball and locking it in the barrel.

 

[Newtire]

I belong to the group that advocates blowing it out with powder thru the nipple. However, if you already have a hole drilled all the way thru the ball, here's something to try. If you blow thru with compressed air and air comes out the front, probably means the hole goes all the way thru. If this is the case and you already have a bunch of oil in there you need to dry that out. Assuming that this is the case, pull the nipple, now go outside, face the barrel muzzle down and spray one can of "brake kleen" or equivalent in thru the nipple hole to clean out the bore area behind the ball, blow dry compressed air in to dry out the bore, and screw a wood screw into the ball (Use your threaded ramrod and fabricate a screwdriver tip that fits). Now, pack in about 10 grains or so of powder in behind the ball, ram the ball back down onto the powder, get out your rosary beads or whatever works best for you, aim down range, recap and fire.

Good luck on a tough problem!

 

[Boomerang]

Removing a breech plug without the proper tools can end up with a pretty marred up barrel and breech plug.

 

[8 BORE]

Some years back, I was in the same situation. No powder and the ball was firmly lodged at the breech of my Derringer rifle. First ball puller stripped out. No problem as I rummaged through my selection of double ended bangers (machine threaded on one end and wood threaded on the other). I have the 8, 10 , and 12 and I stripped them all out. At this time all I could get with the compressed air was a rush of air out the muzzle. Since I had the hole through the ball I knew that the grease pump solution was not the one to employ. The rifle was one I had built and breeched, so I had the wrenches to properly remove the breech and the heavy rod to drive the offending ball out.

When I posted my problem and solution, I got all the above arguments against pulling the breech plug. I do agree that pulling the breech plug is the last option to choose. The rifle in question, a Lyman Deerstalker, will have a breech plug installed to a level that most mere mortals will not be able to budge. A batter vise with formed jaws to hold but not damage the barrel is required. A large wrench that fits the breech plug a d a long cheater bar will be needed to remove and replace the breech plug. If the OP takes his rifle to have the plug removed, it should be to a black powder gunsmith.

Since the ball has been moved back to the breech and if the latest round of powder in the breech to shoot it out fails, then it would be time to screw the ball puller into the ball, use application of high pressure air or get the grease gun to use the pressure from the grease gun to remove the ball.

Lessons learned:
1. I should have tried feeding powder through the vent to shoot the ball out. My first choice with percussion guns is to shoot the ball out. Since I built the rifle, I knew how little space was behind the ball and I didn't have confidence with that method in a flint lock.

2. I should have drilled a pilot hole in the ball to prevent the ball pulling screw from expanding the ball and locking it in the barrel.

You are right, breech plug removal is best. That way you csn clean out that crap that has been put in there. A quality machine shop can do it if he doesnt have the tools. Then put a witness mark on the plug and barrel before taking it out. On the bottom of the barrel so the stock covers it up.

 

[8 BORE]

Removing a breech plug without the proper tools can end up with a pretty marred up barrel and breech plug.

Proper tools wont mess up anything

 

[Stumpkiller]

A good $2.75 screw tipped ball puller is a lot cheaper than a bench vice, barrel clamp, suitable Crescent wrench or cheater bar and strong nautical language. And a bench vice is pain to carry in your shooting pouch (I keep the puller in my patchbox and a spare in the shooting bag)

Why risk a beautiful rifle to trying to pull the breech? Chances are it will be a visible seam for ever after even if you do avoid marring the breech or barrel.