Dry balling - why won't it come out??

[8 BORE]

A good $2.75 screw tipped ball puller is a lot cheaper than a bench vice, barrel clamp, suitable Crescent wrench or cheater bar and strong nautical language. And a bench vice is pain to carry in your shooting pouch (I keep the puller in my patchbox and a spare in the shooting bag)

Why risk a beautiful rifle to trying to pull the breech? Chances are it will be a visible seam for ever after even if you do avoid marring the breech or barrel.

The ball by now is so screwed up you could whistle dixie thru it.
Its already got a seam, just harder to see.

 

[Black Hand]

The ball by now is so screwed up you could whistle dixie thru it.
Its already got a seam, just harder to see.

You are assuming something the OP didn't state. He did say his rammer wasn't very good but really made no mention of having used a screw on the ball at all...

 

[Grenadier1758]

8 Bore, Note: Breach plug removal was the last choice not the best choice and it was a choice that was applicable to my situation.

At the range breech plug removal is not feasible with a modern muzzle loader. Once it is determined that there is no powder at the breech, the best plan is to remove the ball by a blast of compressed CO2 or tickling some powder through the nipple seat. That has always been the quickest and best method I have found. Not coincidently, the use of a tank of compressed gas is the method used at my gun club to clear a ball loaded without powder.

Lessons learned for William Merton (OP):
1. Don't start off by filling the barrel with penetrating oil. Do wait several minutes to ensure that there is not a hangfire lurking in the barrel.
2. The ball was moving. After several initial attempts, the ball was halfway down the barrel. A cap by itself doesn't generate the needed pressure at the breech to blow a powderless ball from the barrel. Time to add some powder (at least 5 to 10 grains volume) under the nipple, seat the ball on the powder. Wipe the bore with a damp patch (the rifle had been shot 13 times and the bore was certainly fouled). When firing out a dry ball ensure that the ball is seated at the breech after powder has been added under the nipple. Seat a new cap on the nipple and fire the ball out.
3. Don't wait until the 13th shot to address the build up of fouling in the bore.

 

[8 BORE]

You are assuming something the OP didn't state. He did say his rammer wasn't very good but really made
.mention of having used a screw on the ball at all...

I naver make assumptioms. The first 3 letters of assumption and the first 3 letters of the person making it are usually the same. If the OP has done half the stuff that was told to him to do there aint much ball left.
Glad you sent the picture otherwise no body would know what a ball puller looks like.

 

[Black Hand]

I naver make assumptioms. If thr OP has done half the stuff that was told to him to do there aint much ball left.

Which is another assumption...

 

[Baxter]

I know, there are a gazillion posts on this topic, and I've read many, and have tried a few of the "solutions", but first time ever shooting my DeerStalker and on my 13th round I realized I forgot the powder... FFWD 2 hours, penetrating oil in the barrel and a dozen cap shots with BP down the nipple, and the ball is about 1/2 out, but it ain't going any further... My original ramrod isn't worth a crap (only one I have) to get tension with the ball puller to bite into the ball, and I don't have a CO2 discharger either... Suggestions?

Planning to go to the gun shop tomorrow to see if they can get it out before ML season opens Thursday... Sorry for bringing this issue up, but I seem to be at a dead end. Thank you

The first sentence, second paragraph gave me some hope that the fix was going to be simple.

 

[8 BORE]

Black hand you are on my Ignored list.

Which is another assumption...

Made by you

 

[8 BORE]

Humans have been sending space ships around the earth,flying and landing on the moon and sending stuff to Mars for 60 years.But for some reason a stuck lead ball cant be taken out of a muzzle loader. Something humans have been doing for 300 years or so.

 

[Black Hand]

Humans have been sending space ships around the earth,flying and landing on the moon and sending stuff to Mars for 60 years.But for some reason a stuck lead ball cant be taken out of a muzzle loader. Something humans have been doing for 300 years or so.

Yes - and the majority have been removed with a ball screw...
Admittedly, this is based on anecdotal evidence. I have pulled dozens of balls using a ball screw over the last 20 years (even a few that were dry-balled) and NOT ONCE have I removed a breech-plug. I've shot out a dry-ball maybe twice or three times and that was BEFORE I figured out the ball screw was the simplest way to get a stuck ball out.

 

[Robby]

There are no special tools required to remove a breech plug. He has a vice, and anyone that owns a vice probably owns a crescent wrench, or better yet a monkey wrench, left handed of course, would be better. Just line the jaws with something, brass, copper, aluminum, hard wood, whatever. Good lord hasn't anyone removed a bolt(?), same principle. I've done it, probably a hundred times for various purposes, including removal of a dry ball That I stripped the threads from.
Robby

 

[Britsmoothy]

8bore, your a joke. Your arrogance is amazing.
This feller came here for help. He does not want a stupid arrogant person jumping on him. He wants help and most reasonable men here have offered him all the help he needs, except that is for you!
Pulling the breech plug may if not done correctly totally mash the outside of his rifle. Are you going to fix that for him should he react to your bullying manners?
I will assume and say I think not because your the type that gets a weird sick kick out of seeing someone else's misery.

You sir are a discouragement, a disappointment and a rude man.
You sir are contributing to making sure no one comes here for advise. You sir are a sham, a double agent, a miserable man.
Why don't you go film yourself removing one of your breech plugs and show us all just how easy it is? Or are you to chicken?

May the OP get the stuck ball out and he will. He has loads of options other than removing the breech plug. I just hope he is not deterred by the caustic arrogance by some here!

B.

 

[Robby]

Yes - and the majority have been removed with a ball screw...
Admittedly, this is based on anecdotal evidence. I have pulled dozens of balls using a ball screw over the last 20 years (even a few that were dry-balled) and NOT ONCE have I removed a breech-plug. I've shot out a dry-ball maybe twice or three times and that was BEFORE I figured out the ball screw was the simplest way to get a stuck ball out.

He's been trying that with no luck.
Robby

 

[Britsmoothy]

There are no special tools required to remove a breech plug. He has a vice, and anyone that owns a vice probably owns a crescent wrench, or better yet a monkey wrench, left handed of course, would be better. Just line the jaws with something, brass, copper, aluminum, hard wood, whatever. Good lord hasn't anyone removed a bolt(?), same principle. I've done it, probably a hundred times for various purposes, including removal of a dry ball That I stripped the threads from.
Robby

You don't know how good his shop is!
How well his vice is, how well it is fixed and how heavy or fixed is the bench is.
Then there are wrenches and wrenches!

If this fellow has struggled as described then all other avenues should be explored first before pressurising someone to believe they simply unscrew the breech.

 

[Black Hand]

Having read where he pulled the threaded end off the rod, I suggest gluing AND pinning the end to the rod and screwing it back onto the screw he left downbore. Then, pulling the ball NOT twisting the rod with locking pliers. Pouring a little water down the barrel may simplify the extraction. I still don't advocate removing the breechplug. I do advocate for pinning ANY end to the rod to avoid this issue. I also pulled the balls with the rod that came with the gun.

I had the same happen the first time I tried to pull a ball - the end came off the rod. I screwed a sectional aluminum cleaning rod from a gun-cleaning kit onto the screw still in the ball and pulled out the ball. It is likely the OP has such a kit or one can be purchased for a modest sum.

The KEY is pull NOT twist...

 

[Baxter]

Yes - and the majority have been removed with a ball screw...
Admittedly, this is based on anecdotal evidence. I have pulled dozens of balls using a ball screw over the last 20 years (even a few that were dry-balled) and NOT ONCE have I removed a breech-plug. I've shot out a dry-ball maybe twice or three times and that was BEFORE I figured out the ball screw was the simplest way to get a stuck ball out.

I completely agree that a ball screw is the most efficient means of getting a ball out of a barrel when dry-balled. Having the correct "tools" at hand before dry-balling is imperative. I will admit to having had a quality steel range rod at hand both times and having far more confidence in it than my rifle's wood rod, though it is pinned.

 

[Okie Hog]

None of this stuff nears the complexity of rocket science. No need to remove the breech plug, use a grease gun, compressed air, or a ball puller. i've removed dozens of dry balls. The method below failed one time. The shooter had loaded his rifle with Black Horn 209 powder: We had to pull that one.

It's so easy to:

1. Remove the nipple
2. Take the nipple pick and work some powder into the bolster/flame channel
3. Re-install nipple
4. Re-seat the ball
5. Point gun in safe direction
6. Cap and fire

.

 

[Robby]

I'm not pressuring anyone Brit. Yes, I am making a few assumptions, like 'everyone' else here. Maybe I take it for granted that a breech plug removal is not a hard, difficult, or dangerous to the gun, job because I do it as a matter of course all the time. I wish him only the best results in whatever path he takes that leads him to a satisfactory solution.
Robby

 

[Black Hand]

None of this stuff nears the complexity of rocket science. No need to remove the breech plug, use a grease gun, compressed air, or a ball puller. i've removed dozens of dry balls. The method below failed one time. The shooter had loaded his rifle with Black Horn 209 powder: We had to pull that one.

It's so easy to:

1. Remove the nipple
2. Take the nipple pick and work some powder into the bolster/flame channel
3. Re-install nipple
4. Re-seat the ball
5. Point gun in safe direction
6. Cap and fire

Agreed. However the OP has placed penetrating oil down the barrel...
It is possible, if he gets enough powder behind the ball, that the oil won't affect the powder enough before the ball is shot out. Can't say for certain...

 

[8 BORE]

8bore, your a joke. Your arrogance is amazing.
This feller came here for help. He does not want a stupid arrogant person jumping on him. He wants help and most reasonable men here have offered him all the help he needs, except that is for you!
Pulling the breech plug may if not done correctly totally mash the outside of his rifle. Are you going to fix that for him should he react to your bullying manners?
I will assume and say I think not because your the type that gets a weird sick kick out of seeing someone else's misery.

You sir are a discouragement, a disappointment and a rude man.
You sir are contributing to making sure no one comes here for advise. You sir are a sham, a double agent, a miserable man.
Why don't you go film yourself removing one of your breech plugs and show us all just how easy it is? Or are you to chicken?

May the OP get the stuck ball out and he will. He has loads of options other than removing the breech plug. I just hope he is not deterred by the caustic arrogance by some here!

B.

My replys are to people like you.. Robby knows how to do it. The OP Merton needs to forget all that you been telling him and just
PULL THE BREECH PLUG
You must be a grade school graduate or less to learn all of those wordd

 

[Black Hand]

My replys are to people like you.. Robby knows how to do it. The OP Merton needs to forget all that you been telling him and just
PULL THE BREECH PLUG

Yes - the self-assured overconfidence of someone who risks nothing if his advice is followed and something goes wrong. I see this quite a lot with certain people and it is unsavory and quite disturbing.