Duplex loads

[toyforever]

:hmm: I have seen posts about "duplex loads" throughout this forum but have never heard anyone locally talk about them. How is the accuracy? What about the possibility of a bursting barrel :cursing:

 

[roundball]

:hmm: I have seen posts about "duplex loads" throughout this forum but have never heard anyone locally talk about them. How is the accuracy? What about the possibility of a bursting barrel :cursing:

I've been using them every week for a couple years in my Flintlocks at the range...wanted to use up several lbs of PyrodexRS leftover from caplock days before I switched to Goex.

I use 'layered charges'...for targets 20grns Goex 3F down bore first, followed by 30/40/50grns PyrodexRS...perfectly safe, excellent accuracy...to make the range tripo simple and save time, I premeasure my powder charges into 35mm film canisters...put 50 film cans in a large ziploc bag, 50 film cans in another.

in fact, I just finished my last pound of Pyrodex...I am now a "BP-Sub-Free" household
:grin:

 

[playfarmers]

When I hunted in real cold weather [-20-25], I found that about 10g of FFFg was needed under the main charge of Pyrodex to stop hang fires. This was in a cap lock.

 

[Lone Carabiner]

You must be reference a double PRB load which is what I use hunting. Course I sight-in with it some to check my sights. I dump the powder, whack the breech area couple times with my palm to knock some into the drum, insert felt wad-place a dollop of GO-JO atop then run it down onto the powder. Then a PRB just barely into the barrel and another atop it and run 'em down sure atop the wad, don't want any space between 'em for sure that might be a bad thing. Old timers called it 'loaded fer bar'. Drops 'em real quick like. :v

 

[Stumpkiller]

Says right on the Goex can not to mix it with any other type of powders. :nono:

 

[roundball]

Says right on the Goex can not to mix it with any other type of powders. :nono:

FWIW, I personally think that's just an age old liability statement...and in contrast, on the Hodgdon jars of Pyrodex, their label actually recommends putting a little BP under the Pyrodex as an 'ignitor' charge.

From a spare breechplug I have, I know a TC patent breech holds 18-20 grns of Goex 3F, so all I was doing was filling the chamber with 3F like normal.

Mostly using 30/40grns of Pyrodex RS over the 20grns 3F ignitor charge, I've shot about 1200 of those layered charges to use up 6lbs of Pyrodex RS...they've all been just as consistent, accurate, and predictable as I'd want.

But in this world of sue happy people, let me state for the record that this is just what I do, and will add:

"others should always follow manufacturers recommendations, and not copy my personal experience"
:thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

putting a layer of Goex down the barrel, followed by a layer of Pyrodex, is not " mixing " the way I understand the term. Mixing BP and Pyrodex would indeed make a very exciting shooting experience- one best seen than done.

 

[Wehrmacht]

LC,

I'm interested in your experiences with a double PRB load. Please tell me:
1.Have you killed a bear with this double load? If so,tell me what you used ie cal.,powder, penetration,etc...what happened??

2.Suggested maximum distance before falling too much and loosing knockdown power.What happens compared to a single load.

3. Seperation in flight? Same hole? Distance between entry points at what ranges?

 

[Lone Carabiner]

1-Haven't killed a bear with this or even shot at one. I've been on bear hunts twice, with a party with dogs(legal here in NC) and their own firearms. I carried my ROA. Both hunts the bear ran to the 'Bear Sanctuary' here in the National Forest and you can't take them there. Still a lot of fun, bears den up in there and come out for miles around foraging.
2. I've taken many deer with this load. I sight in at 50 yds. My .50 CVA 1-48 with 24" barrel. It puts 'em right in a 2" circle at this range around an inch apart. Off a rest. Hits a 6" circle at 100 about 3" apart. This is with 70 gr. 3f. I've shot more powder but accuracy drops off. with 80 gr, accuracy is still pretty good at 50 yds. At 20 yds. balls are nearly touching in a 1" circle.
Has more recoil than a single PRB load, and I practice off hand at 30 yds.
Good luck and good shooting
:thumbsup:

 

[Wehrmacht]

Thanks for the info!

I've taken several bear with my .50cal Herschal House .50cal,1:66 twist,48" barrel,72gr 3f. I've found that it's difficult to bust the brain cavity unless you're less than 25 or so yards out,and a double lung shot with (hopefully) heart damage is much more effective. I've just upgraded (I think :winking: ) with a .60cal piece with straight rifling from breach to the muzzle.My thinking is that the added weight and ... umphhft... of a .60cal RB will do more damage and be more effective....but this remains to be seen! (I'm presently waiting on a .59cal mould from Ray Rapine).

The duplex load sounds interesting....I'll probably give it a try on hogs and maybe deer with my Herschel rifle. If,at 30-40 yards the two balls will spread a couple of inches and PENETRATE through muscle and bone tissue to the opposite side, it should be very effective. I'll try and see :winking:.

 

[roundball]

"...at 30-40 yards the two balls will spread a couple of inches and PENETRATE through muscle and bone tissue to the opposite side..."

Just to be clear, while shooting two balls makes "the total weight of the payload in the barrel greater", it it not so at the target.

Penetration will still be limited to whatever a single ball would normally penetrate...most likely less if the velocity is down due to the weight of the double ball payload while in the barrel.

 

[Java Man]

I'm with you RB. One nice size hole in the right place is all that required. I'd rather not sacrifice velocity for an extra ball that pushes the pressure way up.

 

[renovato]

The weight of a double ball is about the same as a conical. As long as the powder charge reflects that, the pressures should be in a safe range. I don't shoot double ball loads, myself, but they've been successfully doing it a very long time.

 

[evan]

In a duplex load " loaded for bear: were you use two ball in one load, How do you keep the last ball down(second ball) from rolling out. Or do you use a patch for each ball........... Is it fair to say you put in 90 ff pb+pb? how far will this shoot out.....(Range?) 50 yards? 100? yards...I'm learning whats this is all about. We hunt in the swamp and a 50-yard shot is far around here.

Thanks for the help

 

[Lone Carabiner]

Yes, use 2 PRB's. I did shoot several times with the same charge as a single PRB and did well, slight drop in POI. I started exiperimenting and found that a drop in powder charge resulted in more drop but tighter pattern, I figured it's worth the loss in velocity. Your rifle probably may shoot different, I have 24" barrel, 1-48 twist. This is where I found out that an over-powder felt wad makes a difference in accuracy, when testing using this load. Before I did not use one. I found out that it tightens groups with either 1 or 2 PRB's.
I practice off-hand at 30 yds. and shoot off a rest at 50 (shoots well and consistent POI at that range). Have fired several shots at 100 but have to set my sights different than 50. When adjusted for 100 the shot is on a paper plate with the 2 RB's 4-6 in. apart. If I was hunting at that range I would not hesitate to take a shot if I had a good target and if I was sighted in for 100. Particularly if I had a rest to shoot from.
I have used 100 gr. and at 50 yds accuracy was fair but groups opened up, consistently hit 6" circle at this range, I got good accuracy with a single PRB and 80 gr. 70 is what I use with a double PRB.
I plan on getting a Lee REAL bullet mold to expiriment with and if it does away with 'drop' I probably will use them if I get as good group as PRB with more powder.

 

[renovato]

Says right on the Goex can not to mix it with any other type of powders. :nono:

Some years back I had a bottle of pain killers that said "do not mix with alcohol." It was sure more fun when I did! :rotf:

 

[Russianblood]

I had small amounts of 1f and 2f GOEX left over in seperate containers so I combined them to make a flask full for my brass barrelled blunderbuss. It works well for what I'm using it for. Though I don't see any advantages to mixing them other than to fill the flask.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Note that in some states - like here in NY - loading more than one projectile at a time in the barrel is illegal for big game hunting. Better check your game laws first.

It's also like shooting two 1/2 powered loads at once. More mass means less velocity. I'd much prefer one good ball that hits where I'm aiming and punches on through.

 

[Lone Carabiner]

No restrictions in NC for doubles. I did drop the charge 10 gr. from a single ball for better accuracy but it still shot well at 50 yds with the standard charge, just slightly more 'spread' of the balls.
Doubt that it halved the energy level from a single ball charge, some drop in velocity but twice the damage. You ought to see what it does to wet phone books.

 

[Pork Chop]

In Florida, you shoot one projectile - if shooting more than one, the gun must be 20 gauge or larger...