Early 1500s Snapping Matchlock carbine

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I used to plat Macrame string to make it thicker & rubbed it over with wallpaper glue once dry to keep it together better But the Tinder lock was a mystery to me till I met you . WE used to shoot for a Cup in NZ called ' The Brother Hood Cup' Viz ' The Brotherhood of the burning rope ' cup Not sure if still shot for it was a MLAIC thing The NZ team affair . I never aspired to get dolled up for a team, but I made guns for them and shot to give them practice & qualified as of right mostly . But wasn't into the' team thing'. traveling so often as I did , Regards Rudyard
 
Good morning Rudyard and all,

For pictures of such tinder, they can be seen in this thread of Michael's, on Viking Sword.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7542&highlight=tinderlock
I know I have shown this thread before, but the first depiction from the painting of the Battle of Pavia, 1525, shows (rather poorly) the stiff short piece of tinder held in the small serpent, And, the very thick match cord twined around the arm of the arquebusier.
At the botom opf page two of this thread, can be seen Michael's beloved gun, with the piece of tinder held in the serpent.
Yes, you will see some sort of match -cord in very short lengths being used as tinder in some of these photos of Michaels guns, but that was likely because its what he had, rather than the real thing.
There are better photos of tinder being used in some of Michael's threads, but cant find the right ones at present!

Richard.
 
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Dear Pukka Brilliant pics Ex our Michiel T . My he got onto some good stuff ! All wonderfully helpfull in our journey into to the New Way Backwards !.
Regards Rudyard
(Virtuoso on the concert Arquebuss or at least a wannabe !)
 
Dear Rudyard,
Yes, Michael took photos like no one else ever has. Leaves nothing to doubt if you want to make a lock like these.
Surprising how good the threads are, when they were cut getting on for 500 years ago.
Pleased they are useful to you!
 
Dear Pukka . So very true ,they are remarkably good pics. If I suppose if they never got used the threads would still be good , cluated with deer fat perhaps ? like the Packington guns where. I note He says the Fungus is soaked with Saltpetre you reckon its not needed . Ive not used it either way . You are the real virtuoso on the concert matchlock Iv'e made plenty but figure Im'e scarce more than a tyro or at least a humble' Student of arms '( That's all De Witt claims on his letter heads) . The more you learn the more you realise we cant know the half of such a big subject . Anyway I digress .
Regards Rudyard
 
One thing I notice in this picture is that the two soldiers have their 12 Apostles ( pre loads ) over their shoulders and horns at their waists , the horns seem to have some sort of fitting at the big end which is facing forward , which would be unusual for a powder horn so I wonder if they may be shot horns . Ideas?
1648946048531.png
 
Dear Cutfinger . Perhaps the horns are a powder supply to fill the bandoleer chargers . That makes more sense . If they where balls they would to hard to get out off either end and would rattle & be a pain with their swinging about but then the guns allway's seem super sized in the stocking department .Perhaps the Viking sword file will illuminate us on this point ? Regards Rudyard
 
Michael does discuss this type of powder horn, Cutfinger and Rudyard.
They appear the for -runner of the more conventional horn, but agree, they appear much less handy.
There are a good many illustrations of this type, on the Viking Sword forum.

Rudyard,
Yes, Micheal says the tinder was treated, and it may work very well treated, but there is not a thing to complain about if merely dried and Untreated. It burns it seems a little slower than matchcord, and very hot with a nice red hot cone on the tip.
Do you get tree fungus in NZ?..... I know we did around our old stomping grounds in Yorkshire!
 
Do you get tree fungus in NZ?..... I know we did around our old stomping grounds in Yorkshire! [/QUOTE said:
Yes we do , I have seen pieces as big as 2 feet around growing on Birch trees , usually they are stick out from the trunk for 3 - 8 " . There used to be a business exporting them to China for medicinal use .
Click to expand...
 
Pukka Bundook said:
Michael does discuss this type of powder horn, Cutfinger and Rudyard.
They appear the for -runner of the more conventional horn, but agree, they appear much less handy.
There are a good many illustrations of this type, on the Viking Sword forum.

Rudyard,
Yes, Micheal says the tinder was treated, and it may work very well treated, but there is not a thing to complain about if merely dried and Untreated. It burns it seems a little slower than matchcord, and very hot with a nice red hot cone on the tip.
Do you get tree fungus in NZ?..... I know we did around our old stomping grounds in Yorkshire!
Click to expand...
Yes tree fungus seems universal in suitable climes Is there a picture of the horns .Ile look it up & see .How we see such kit today & how they made the to us awkward shapes of flasks & Patrons .
Regards Rudyard
 
Rudyard said:
Dear Cutfinger . Perhaps the horns are a powder supply to fill the bandoleer chargers . That makes more sense . If they where balls they would to hard to get out off either end and would rattle & be a pain with their swinging about but then the guns always seem super sized in the stocking department .Perhaps the Viking sword file will illuminate us on this point ? Regards Rudyard
Click to expand...
I have just put in for membership of Viking Sword to try to sort this out .
 
I've seen two original powder horns that were authenticated pre-1650. The pour spouts were mounted on the large end of the horn. Based on this, and the many sketches and artists renditions, this use of the large end of the horn would appear to be the norm with horn builders from the earlier periods. At some point, someone must have decided it was more convenient to utilize the tapered end of the horn to extract the powder, and eventually add a fill plug to the larger end. And it apparently caught on.

Rick
 
Well Pukka , Thanks for that it certainly did help ,and thank goodness for collectors .the progression and evolution of arms and accoutrements is best seen in big collections.
There are so many different flasks in those pictures , I particularly like the priming flasks , they settle the argument as to whether priming flasks are a modern artifact or not .
I notice that many of the soldiers have both ends of their , often very fat, matches lit . There must have been a lot of nasty incidents in crowds of soldiers like those depicted .
I realise now the age of Matchlocks was also the age of bright complicated clothing, heroic poses and cod pieces .They are a right poofy looking lot but in reality they were probably as hard as Billy Goat knees .
 
Ah Cutfinger, I am pleased you enjoyed that thread!
Yes, priming had to be very fine for matchlocks, and I mustvsay I enjoyed reading your post above, and your eye for detail.
It was usual to have both ends of the match lit in battle, as insurance you might say.
Michael has another thread if I can find it, regarding paper cartridges and how they were carried, with normally the ball end dipped in tallow.

Michael had some wonderful examples, and some being made like a cartridge belt, withba leather cover, a fresh cartridge could be easily retrieved. I made one of these for when hunting. some had a pouch attached for tow for wadding or cleaning.
Will see if I can find the thread!
Another great thread was the patrons for cartridges. Slightly less handy, being very boxy, but usually high end stuff!
I bet our pal Rudyard has made some of these!

The deeper we dig, the more interesting stuff we find!
 
Pukka Bundook said:
Michael had some wonderful examples ...
Click to expand...
Amazing! That picture of the cast roundball where the sprue wasn't cut off, but instead was tied to the paper cartridge? Just the fact alone it has survived to this day is simply incredible!

But I must add ...

I cannot express to you how many HOURS, if not DAYS, I have spent searching, reading and enjoying the many posts by Michael, aka 'Matchlock', Tromler. He was a researcher of excellence bar none and freely shared his wealth of information of the 'real early arms', and did do in an eually entertaining and fascinating detail and persective, supported with tons of pictures. To say he passed far too soon would be an understatement. Matchlock ... we remain forever indebted to you!
 
Flint,
I agree with every word!
Nowhere else will you find such information so readily shared, and no-one else that I know of was willing to dismantle completely arms in his collection so that you could see every small detail.
If I Was to find a fault with Michael, it was that he overwhelmed my old dial -up computer with photos!
He would email me sometimes, wanting my comments on a thread, but I could not get there, as the computer at that time threw up its hands in
despair. No problem with this newer one, and its a fact I never did get to see all his threads before his passing!
The questions I would Liked to have asked him!
 

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