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George

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Benjamin Robins is known today as the father of ballistics and the inventor of the ballistics pendulum, the first method for determining the velocity of projectiles. He was a very talented English scientist and mathematician, interested in many things. In his book New Principles of Gunnery he described investigating the velocity of gasses created by firing black powder with no bullet. His rather amazing conclusion was that the gasses had a velocity of about 7000 feet per second. I wondered if that had been verified in modern times, but have not found any direct reports of it being studied. I did run across this strong circumstantial evidence that they travel very fast, though. It is a report in a medical journal of a suicide carried out with a 45-caliber muzzle-loading black powder pistol with no bullet.
*********
Fatal Contact Shot to the Chest Caused by the Gas Jet From a Muzzle-Loading Pistol Discharging Only Black Powder and No Bullet: Case Study and Experimental Simulation of the Wounding Effect

Markus Große Perdekamp 1, Matthieu Glardon, Beat P Kneubuehl, Lena Bielefeld, Hadi Nadjem, Stefan Pollak, Rebecca Pircher

[clip]

"The present paper reports on a suicide committed with a muzzle-loading percussion pistol cal. 45. An unusually large stellate entrance wound was located in the precordial region, accompanied by an imprint mark from the ramrod and a faint greenish discoloration (apparently due to the formation of sulfhemoglobin). Autopsy revealed an oversized powder cavity, multiple fractures of the anterior thoracic wall as well as ruptures of the heart, the aorta, the left hepatic lobe and the diaphragm. In total, the zone of mechanical destruction had a diameter of approx. 15 cm. As there was no exit wound and no bullet lodged in the body, the injury was caused exclusively by the inrushing combustion gases of the propellant (black powder) comparable with the gas jet of a blank cartridge gun. In contact shots to ballistic gelatine using the suicide's pistol loaded with black powder but no projectile, the formation of a nearly spherical cavity could be demonstrated by means of a high-speed camera. The extent of the temporary cavity after firing with 5 g of black powder roughly corresponded to the zone of destruction found in the suicide's body."
*******
Be careful out there. It can kill you even if it's not loaded.

Spence
 
Benjamin Robins is known today as the father of ballistics and the inventor of the ballistics pendulum, the first method for determining the velocity of projectiles. He was a very talented English scientist and mathematician, interested in many things. In his book New Principles of Gunnery he described investigating the velocity of gasses created by firing black powder with no bullet. His rather amazing conclusion was that the gasses had a velocity of about 7000 feet per second. I wondered if that had been verified in modern times, but have not found any direct reports of it being studied. I did run across this strong circumstantial evidence that they travel very fast, though. It is a report in a medical journal of a suicide carried out with a 45-caliber muzzle-loading black powder pistol with no bullet.
*********
Fatal Contact Shot to the Chest Caused by the Gas Jet From a Muzzle-Loading Pistol Discharging Only Black Powder and No Bullet: Case Study and Experimental Simulation of the Wounding Effect

Markus Große Perdekamp 1, Matthieu Glardon, Beat P Kneubuehl, Lena Bielefeld, Hadi Nadjem, Stefan Pollak, Rebecca Pircher

[clip]

"The present paper reports on a suicide committed with a muzzle-loading percussion pistol cal. 45. An unusually large stellate entrance wound was located in the precordial region, accompanied by an imprint mark from the ramrod and a faint greenish discoloration (apparently due to the formation of sulfhemoglobin). Autopsy revealed an oversized powder cavity, multiple fractures of the anterior thoracic wall as well as ruptures of the heart, the aorta, the left hepatic lobe and the diaphragm. In total, the zone of mechanical destruction had a diameter of approx. 15 cm. As there was no exit wound and no bullet lodged in the body, the injury was caused exclusively by the inrushing combustion gases of the propellant (black powder) comparable with the gas jet of a blank cartridge gun. In contact shots to ballistic gelatine using the suicide's pistol loaded with black powder but no projectile, the formation of a nearly spherical cavity could be demonstrated by means of a high-speed camera. The extent of the temporary cavity after firing with 5 g of black powder roughly corresponded to the zone of destruction found in the suicide's body."
*******
Be careful out there. It can kill you even if it's not loaded.

Spence
Col. Cooper reported on the suicide of a neighbor involving an older service rifle and cartridge, from which the bullet had been pulled from the cartridge. The muzzle placed against the soft pallet, and the deed was done. Damage was extensive. This has been corroborated elsewhere, and reported as a common method around the time of the end of WWII in certain places.
I had a customer at the range puncture a nasty hole in the base of his thumb from high velocity hot gas escaping from a tiny hole in a blown case head.

I too would be interested in more scientific data on gas velocity. Especially regarding the combustion of black powder. But, as we are considered obsolete, I doubt that data will be forthcoming.
 
I thought this was about Taco Bell at first :D

Even a blank can kill, especially if the muzzle is close to the skin. The gas has to go somewhere.
 
In UK theatrical guns designed to emit flame or flash from the muzzle have to be licensed.!
The effect of concentrated gasses jetting is the basis of the famous weapon for blowing holes in walls and doors, the petard. It was understood very early, Shakespeare spoke of being "hoist with his own petard" about 1600.

Spence
 
their are compressed air guns now that shoot arrows. they are accurate and deadly. blanks are dangerous. some shoot nail gun blanks in a strong 22 long rifle gun and put a pellet in front of it and they go over 2000 ft. per second. ive always wondered why they dont strip out of the rifling but they dont seem to. interesting rabbit holes on this one.
 
Good luck but how about sticking an arrow down the tube!

Back in the late 60’s, when someone killing a deer around here with a bow and arrow would make the front page on the local newspaper; a friend at school and his father, got an archery deer every year. I asked him how they were so lucky? He said they used their .45 TC Hawkins with 10 gr blackpowder and a couple wads under an aluminum arrow with a Bear razorhead. He said the arrows were accurate out to 40 yards and penetrated completely. He never was one for following any rules when hunting or fishing.
 

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