First Gun Build Questions

[jdkerstetter]

I dovetail or solder my lugs on depending on the situation. I guess some people have luck with the staples but not me. I have the stuff to do it with and tried it on a barrel once and ended up dimpling the bore when peening the metal over the feet....a lot of work to fix it too. Don Getz, who used to make some very good quality barrels has spoken of others doing the same thing, so no more staples for me. Others pull it off and it is historically correct for some in some applications.

Dovetailing them will be good practice for doing the sights later.

Here's post from a couple months ago on dovetailing that takes some of the mystery out of it: http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...ost/1189054/hl/dovetail/fromsearch/1/#1189054

Files? I grabbed some of these when I saw them at BigLots one time for a couple bucks. They are nice because they are already safe on one side, Japanese made, the sides are parallel and the corners are sharp. Brownells also sells dedicated dovetailing files but they are expensive.

You can make one easy enough out of any good triangle file by removing the teeth on one side, making it "safe". You don't have to do it until the file is perfectly smooth and devoid of all evidence that teeth were there but you want to remove it's ability to cut. If you are tempted to do this on a grinder you need to quench often in water to ensure you do not overheat it and ruin it.

Lock inlet? That little sliver of wood that is hanging out in space and unsupported is doing you no good and can be trimmed off. It is unlikely that it will break off but if it does it may interfere with the locks operation...and always at the most inopportune time.

Disclaimer: Remember this advice is free and is worth about what you paid. Anything I'm telling you is just works for me and my skill set.

Others, feel free to contribute, anytime!

Enjoy, J.D.

 

Thanks... I'll check the link out. I have the example in the Gunsmith of Grenville County as well, and it seems straightforward enough. More freekin tools.... the wife is gonna kill me.

 

[jdkerstetter]

....More freekin tools.... the wife is gonna kill me.

At least she knows where you're at. A guy could be spending money at the bar or worse places on nastier stuff.

Mine would rather have me in the basement than not home at all. Plus, they know they can sell all of this stuff someday! :wink:


Enjoy, J.D.

 

She best not be selling my "stuff". She has lately been calling me Gepetto... lol

 

Well, as I wait for the new parts to come, I have been working on a few things. I'm still doing a little work on the tang inlet. I'm concerned as the breech doesn't seem to want to go back fully, and I think the tang is what is preventing that. I'm still tinkering with it and some of the black to find where it is stopping it. If worse come to worse, how would I bed the breech to make it nice and solid in case I can't find the issue?

Also, I tapped the lock this evening for the 8-32 bolt. No problems... whew... glad that is done.

Once I get the barrel fully inlet and properly bedded, I plan to drill the hole for the lock retaining bolt, but now would not be the ideal time to do that if it may shift a hair.

Oh, also finished up that spike tonight for when I do the tang bolt. And don't worry JD... I didn't make it so I could spear the gun... it's a fairly flat point.

Thanks....

 

[jdkerstetter]

Easy to see if the breech plug is what is preventing the barrel from moving all the way back....remove it and see if the barrel does by itself. If it does it's the breech plug bolster or tang. If it doesn't it's the barrel.

You should have the barrel seated all the way back before you put the plug back in to begin with. Then reinstall and inlet the bolster and tang.

Did you tap the holes in the lock before you have the holes drilled in the stock? You shouldn't have.

On the front bolt....I don't remember this being adressed yet, but do you know where your ramrod hole is yet? You don't want to put a bolt through it.

J.D.

 

JD... I know it's the tang as I made sure the breech end of the barrel was nice and tight ( < 0.001" gap) previously. So IF I can't get the inlet to behave for the tang, how does one bed the breech end of the barrel.

As far as the holes for the lock go, I'm only going with one bolt, and I only tap'd it in the lock, and have not drilled the hole in the barrel or the stock just yet as I knew I had to deal with the tang issue.

 

[jdkerstetter]

If your barrel seated properly against the breech there is no excuse for not getting it to do so with the tang attached. You just have to keep removing each sliver of wood until it fits. The smallest sliver or can hang up an entire part.

The breech inlet is critical! It receives all of the backward force of recoil when firing. Not to mention the fact that the breech and tang fit is the most obvious to the eye as anyone who points the gun or looks straight down on it as they hold it is looking right at it.

Breech and tang inlet tight and bolt/screws centered. You can get away with a lot other places on the gun and it's no big deal, but this is critical and gives many builders fits. I know I am most nervous over tang bolts as I want them dead center on the tang.

If you have a gap at the breech and use bedding compound to fill it, it will be obvious to everybody and you will never be happy with it as you sit in the woods with it staring you right in the eye.

On the lock, did you at least drill the hole through the off side panel to the lock side so you know you got the bolt in the right place? If you drilled and tapped without doing this then the hole in the lock determines where the bolt goes instead of the bolt determining where the hole goes (as discussed in a previous post) and the accuracy in drilling your off side hole becomes critical as it has to hit the hole in the lock.

One bolt? You will probably be OK but if using only one I would want it to be a 10-32. On a flinter I would put 2 in anyway as most of the original SMR's did, but that's me.

Slow down and go step by step. This is not a race. It's hard to do but if you jump around you will back yourself into corners and make mistakes.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

I thought I was going slow, as I haven't done much the last couple of days. Some of that is because I have been frustrated at the tang inlet and the other is because I am waiting on the parts coming from Lodi.

I figured tapping the lock bolt would be okay as long as I don't drill the stock or barrel since I still have a bit of work to get the barrel up tight against the stock. The one thing we did discuss the other day was that I had very little room for the rear bolt to make contact on the lock bolster, so I decided that the safest course was to drill the hole on the lock and go from there.

As far as the 8-32 vs 10-32 rear bolt I'm kind of torn. The supplier who I got the bolt from said that it would be just fine as most had that, but there isn't any harm in making a bit more stout. The only real concern will be clearance for the hole on the barrel once every thinkng is seated properly. I really don't want to have to file into the barrel end like we had discussed the other day, but the other thing I really don't want is a forward bolt. Many of the examples I have seen have only had one bolt. I think it looks nice and a bit different. If I have to go with a second bolt though, I will.

Let me ask this though, since I have already tapped the rear bolt for 8-32, can I just take the drill bit for the 10-32 (#21 drill bit I believe) which is a bit bigger than the hole I already tapped, open up the hole, and then re-tap for 10-32? I have a piece of scrap metal that I practiced this on last night that I can try this on, but I don't see a reason why that shouldn't work since I am going bigger vs going smaller.

I'll work on getting that darn tang inlet fixed tonight and turkey day and maybe Friday, if I have the barrel where it needs to be, I can head down to Lodi and pick up a 10-32 bolt if I decide to go that route.

Thanks... jvn

 

[mikemeteor]

can I just take the drill bit for the 10-32 (#21 drill bit I believe) which is a bit bigger than the hole I already tapped, open up the hole, and then re-tap for 10-32?

don't tempt fate.
all that bolt is doing is holding the lock bolster and pan tight against the barrel.
get the geometry right and 8-32 will work fine.

John - this is unsolicited advice, but I think you need to commit some time to sharpening your chisels.
To be frank, that lock mortise is pretty ragged.
There are signs that you may be prying with your chisels - avoid that.
Properly sharpened chisels will make your work easier and leave you much happier with your results.
If you tell me that it came from the supplier with the margins of the pre-inlet looking like that, I'd say you should have sent it back.
regards,
/mike

 

Okay, found the issue... the underside of the tang bolster was hitting the wood. I wasn't painting this with the black and as soon as I did I found he issue. I'm going to keep fine tuning this over the next day or so an hopefully will have everything all set.

Mike... I wasn't sharpening the chisels each time when I first started, and you are correct, I was ripping things more than cutting. I will concentrate on getting then sharp. Zonie had mentioned to make sure the edge can cut my nail a bit, and that is what I have been trying to shoot for. I do know I need to get a strop, as I don't have one of those (do I really need one or are the stones okay)?

 

[jdkerstetter]

Try this: http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2004364/8962/flexcut-slipstrop-sharpening-kit.aspx

It's on sale right now. You can also make your own flat strop by gluing some leather to a board and applying the polishing compound.

The shaped strops can be formed for gouges and v-tools by using the tool to cut the furrows and ridges in pieces of wood so they will match exactly. Apply polishing compound and they are ready to use.

I strop between and during use. You can go a lot longer before having to freshen up the edge on the smooth stone.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

If I glue some leather to a board, does the smooth side go against the wood and the rough side up?

 

[jdkerstetter]

Rough up. Holds the polishing compound better. Use thick leather as you'll cut right through the thin stuff.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[bjmac]

I use my strop after every 5-10 cuts, especially in maple. You will find that after a while, you will know when a touch-up on the cutting edge is needed. Google "Flex-cut" and get their gold strop material and you will be amazed at the edge it keeps. BTW, after all this talk about keeping sharp tools, so you know how to sharpen a chisel?

 

Do I know how to sharpen a chisel? Well, I know of a way to sharpen a chisel, but is it the proper way, I don't know (I'm always willing to learn though).

I have the Veritas Honing guide, and a soft and hard stone (along with the honing oil). I basically set it up with the honing guide, add some oil to the hard side of the stone, and start to roll it over the stone. I only roll it one way, and then pick the blade up and return to start position so as not to grind the blade back and forth.

Now what I do with the stop though is a whole different matter. I have no idea.

 

[Zonie]

As for me, I cheat when it comes to the final "razor edge" on my chisels and carving knives.

Years ago, I bought a low cost bench grinder at Home Depot. It came with two grinding wheels mounted on it.
If one of you wants to get one of these things for your projects and all sorts of other handy uses, be sure to get one with 1/2 inch nuts/threads on its shafts.

I removed one of the wheel guards. the rest and the grinding wheel that was on that side and replaced it with a DICO cloth buffing wheel.

These cloth wheels come in several harnesses and I've found the ones with a lot of spiral stitching on their center area work longest.

The buffing wheels come with a large hole in the middle but they also include two metal washers that fit onto a 1/2 inch diameter grinder shaft.
With the washers sandwiching the cloth wheel, just running the 1/2" hex nut down tight with finger pressure is enough to hold the wheels in place and drive them.

In addition to this grinder and the buffing wheel I've found that DICO CHROME (CR1) will polish steel to a mirror and razor edge.

The various buffing compounds come in a stick form in a cardboard tube.
To "load" the buffing wheel, just turn on the grinder and rub the exposed compound on the spinning wheel.
This is not a 'more is better' thing but too little will waste your time. It takes a bit of trying different amounts of the compound to learn how much to use.

CHROME will also polish brass, bronze and copper to a mirror finish with very little effort.

These wheels and tubes of buffing compound aren't terribly expensive.

Anyway, to get a razor edge on my chisel, after getting as good of an edge as I can with a whetstone, I hold the tip so that the cloth wheel hits the body of the chisel just behind the edge and then, spins past the edge out into space.

After one side of the edge is polished I turn the chisel over and repeat this on the opposite side.

I end up with a mirror finish on both the bevel and the flat back within 1/2" of the edge.
The edge is as sharp as a razor blade and will easily cut thru the end grain of the hardest maples.

 

I never realized that the stropping or buffing was such a critical component to the razor edge. I do have a bench grinder with a buffing wheel on it, I might want to look into that. I believe the compound that would work best would also have the finest grit to it, and not be too agressive.

 

[Birddog6]

And you can also roll the edge over & be right back where ya started, if not real careful.

Just so ya know, you always hold what you are buffing on the Down side of the wheel & also have the edge facing Down, and your Feet Apart.

You NEVER point the item UP at the wheel... :shake: :shake: :shake:

If that wheel grabs the chisel, you may have a trip to the ER to remove the chisel from your leg or foot ! :slap:

I was buffing a knife blade one time years ago, the wheel caught the blade & drove it into my shoe, right between my big toe & the adjacent toe !

So MUCH care should be taken with buffing wheels. Also have sent many items in to garage cyberspace with the buffing wheel. All of a sudden it catches, next thing ya know it is forever gone. :slap:

Keith Lisle

 

[user 922]

Have you ever looked at the lock plates that are on those cheap Indian guns? They are finished on a buffing wheel and every edge is blunted. I think that using a buffing wheel to finish a chisel is bad advice and dangerous. There are correct ways to sharpen tools. You need to learn them before you proceed with your work.

This whole thread is getting crazy.