French Wheellocks

[TobJohn]

Here is an image of a spring retaining plate, showing how the trigger is offset:

 

[TobJohn]

The lighting and reflection made it hard to get clear photos, but here is an attempt to show the bottom plate of two of the Wallace Collection wheellocks:

 

[TobJohn]

Sir;
Any idea what is the purpose of the ball on the butstock?
Thank you,
Hector

Here are some examples of why the little ball on the stock was necessary:

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Cool! How's your trip?

 

[TobJohn]

Cool! How's your trip?

good, thanks! Just saw a bunch of tanks

 

[Sam squanch]

“ Tanks” for the great pictures…….

 

[TobJohn]

I took these photos to try and show how narrow French wheellock carbine stocks are, but the glare and perspective defeated the purpose:

I also got one of the top gun’s side plate:

 

[PhDBrewer]

Great museum! Enjoy the hunt!
Thanks for the images!

 

[TobJohn]

Here are some photos of the RA French wheellock on display:
Collection link:
Wheellock muzzle-loading holster pistol Probably by Jacques de Goulet of Vitre. - Royal Armouries collections

Puffers are GIGANTIC:
(French pistol bottom right)

 

[TobJohn]

Surprisingly, Graz has a singular French wheellock. The author of the inventory book even classified it as a military arm, while most other French wheellocks are sporting arms.

 

[TobJohn]

The V&A has an unusual massive French wheellock musket, with an archetypically dainty and slim French carbine below it.

 

[TobJohn]

while most other French wheellocks are sporting arms.

looking into this again, I’m honestly not sure if French pistols were sporting or military arms. They all seem to come as a classic military pair of pistols and vaguely resemble the shape of the other military wheellock pistols in the later part of the 30 years war. I’m skeptical of their overall durability for combat though, due to their more delicate construction and slim shape. They are frequently highly decorated (could also be due to survivorship bias), but so are puffers, which absolutely were military arms and even intended to work as an emergency club. Does anyone have any ideas or evidence for one way or the other?

 

[TobJohn]

View attachment 324400
The V&A has an unusual massive French wheellock musket, with an archetypically dainty and slim French carbine below it.

I looked at the online collection page for the massive wheellock, and there is all sorts of funkiness going on. It uses a Turkish barrel, which is particularly strange. I am aware of the practice for Austrian sporting guns after the second ottoman siege of Vienna, but not on a 16th or early 17th century French arm.

The museums also assumes the gun was part of Louis XIII’s collection and brought to England as a trophy, after the defeat of Napoleon at Waterloo.

https://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O70523/wheel-lock-gun-unknown/

 

[Sam squanch]

I think a lot of the highly decorated arms were just badges of rank, and one upsmanship among the ruling class. If they ventured into combat, they may have had plainer “ working “ weapons.

 

[TobJohn]

I think a lot of the highly decorated arms were just badges of rank, and one upsmanship among the ruling class. If they ventured into combat, they may have had plainer “ working “ weapons.

That could be possible, but one claim I’ve seen about Germanic wheellock pistols losing decoration in the 1600s is due to a supply and demand issue, where it was too time consuming and impractical to supply decorated pistols for the massive army expansion and attrition before and during the 30 years war. Cuirassiers/Reiters were perfectly happy taking art museum worthy pistols into combat during the 1500s. I’m not sure if it would be different for the French, particularly because the previously mentioned cavalry were extensively used in the French wars of religions. The French might have also not preserved their plain pistols, once they were replaced by flintlocks.

With Germanic wheellocks, we have the benefit of armories, like Graz, that kept large quantities of guns on hand for mobilization, and kept them in inventory wayyyy past their obsolescence. Helps provide more evidence of what a “practical” combat weapon looked like.

 

[Sam squanch]

Maybe all the lower workers who decorated the stocks and chiseled the barrels got drafted? The masters were secure in their positions, but the ordinary employees may have been forced to fight… or farm work.

 

[TobJohn]

Maybe all the lower workers who decorated the stocks and chiseled the barrels got drafted? The masters were secure in their positions, but the ordinary employees may have been forced to fight… or farm work.

Or their workshop got burned down, like in Suhl. I’m certainly happy I live here and now!

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Maybe all the lower workers who decorated the stocks and chiseled the barrels got drafted? The masters were secure in their positions .

Me thinks you may have that backwards, from what I have read the chiselers were indeed the master engravers. Sal Alfano, a living master engraver has a chiseling course, but he encourages people to learn how to engrave - using the hammer and hand gravers, not pneumatic machines - first.

Even Bolek from Poland taught himself to engrave before he started chiseling.

 

[Sam squanch]

Maybe it was a case of all hands on deck when the home town was threatened. War has a way of making people concentrate on the bare minimum.

 

[Rudyard]

I think a lot of the highly decorated arms were just badges of rank, and one upsmanship among the ruling class. If they ventured into combat, they may have had plainer “ working “ weapons.

Our Sam has certainly got some clues .Which I mean in a complimentary way. As for loot after Waterloo I think all the Cabinet d arms guns had inventory numbers so the V&A gun likely had these As for mixes of parts & cultures even the Vikings traded into the Ottoman Empire .' Business is business'after all.
Regards Rudyard