getting into shotguns

[ebiggs1]

I have the opportunity to get into black powder shotguns shooting and hunting. If some one has experience with the Pedersoli L.241 Side-by-Side Shotgun CYL/MOD, I would like their advice. I have never even shot a black powder shotgun. But I do a lot of hunting with a Remington Wingmaster.
I would want to use it for pheasant mostly and some quail. I do not think a cyl barrel would be a good choice but I don’t see where any other is offered.
My only experience with any Pedersoli is a flintlock pistol. I got one at the same time I got a Lyman flintlock pistol. The Pedersoli leaves a lot to be desired in quality compared to the Lyman, which is not a high quality item either. Are their shotguns in the same category?

 

[Lorne Johnson]

Hi!

The Pedersolis Dopiettas are very serviceable guns, made pretty heavily these days. I've been shooting them over spaniels in training for three or four years now. The shift from SxS to muzzle loader wasn't too bad, but would be more from the wingmaster as the sightplane is different and there are a couple of hammers cluttering it. If you are really shooting the instinctive method is not a hard switch.

I've mostly been using a 20 gauge choked cylinder and modified. I also use plastic wads in training (quicker to load and better patterns), which is about the dogs not re-enacting. I've actually dropped a pheasant at 60 yards this way (don't worry I didn't believe it either, but the dog made a great retrieve).

I also have a 12 gauge which 2 sets of barrels, cyc and Mod,and the Cabela's version with screw-in chokes. There are folks on this board who swear by the screw-ins, but I haven't used them since I bought the replacement barrels. (I bought the 20 gauge and the extra barrels from flintlocksetc.com good person, and has shot a lot of flintlock in competition. He also has the 12 with tight fixed chokes; to load those you use 3 overshot cards over the powder and another over the shot.

Muzzle loader shotguns are not a long range weapon, 25 yards is the rule of thumb with traditional loads. Those chokes will increase that some, as will good plastic wads.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Pedersoli builds a fine shotgun and I think you'll find that muzzleloading shotguns give up very little to the modern gun with lead shot, non-toxic is a problem just to find suitable shot.
You can use the loads printed on modern shotshell boxes. Where it says 2 3/4 drams, 1 1/8 ounces shot you can load that same 2 3/4 drams of black powder, a dram being 27.3 grains.
I see no point in loading over 1 1/4 ounces of shot with 80-90 grains FFg. With that load your cylinder bore will drop pheasants at 25 yards and the modified bore should reach 35, maybe 40 yards for reliable kills. Actually, I think your cylinder bore may in fact be improved cylinder which will give more round and uniform patterns than a straight cylinder.

 

[MSW]

my dad had one and swore by it, often using it in preference over center fire scatterguns.

(he was considered a bit eccentric, but an excellent wingshot)

i wouldn't hesitate to buy one, fwiw.

 

[Lorne Johnson]

I would concur with CoyoteJoe.

 

[ebiggs1]

Unfortunately, I can not see this shotgun before I buy it. But you guys say it will be nice? This Pedersoli flintlock pistol is not very good for instance the cock screw that holds the flint will not screw down far because it hits the rounded portion of the cock! There are some other fit issues that are purely cosmetic. What is this screw in choke barrel mentioned above?
There is a fellow with an article in this months "Kansas" magazine that use a Perdesoli double, like the one I mnay get and he also swears by it.

 

[410-er]

I got my 1st muzzy shotgun this year.Just another adiction! :shake:

 

[hanshi]

I owned a Pedersoli sxs for years and the quality was superb. The engraving, checkering and fit/finish is a good as I've seen. I recently sold it to get a flint smoothbore, otherwise I would not have let it go.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Screwe-in choke tubes. Just like are standard issue with modern shotgun barrels these days, the muzzles of the barrels are threaded to take short sections of tubing, and the inside of the tubes is cut to certain levels of restriction to choke the load of shot as it passes out the muzzle, through the tube. You can buy tubes in a wide range of constrictions( or "points", a point being equal to .001".

Using plastic wads, made for modern shotguns will often extend your range and improve the density of the shot patterns. The wad does this by holding the shot together longer after it leaves the muzzle. It also protects the pellets on the outside of the load from rubbing flats on them on the sides of the bore as the load travels out the barrel at increasing speeds, and then slams though choke at the muzzle, if its present.

You will not get the same high velocities listed on modern shells with those equivalent loads, and its impractical to expect to get that kind of velocity. If you need long range killing power, you use larger, heavier shot sizes( pellets). For instance, I use #5 lead shot in my 12 gauge, instead of the #6 shot I am comfortable using in my Remington 870 with its full choke. Used in both my BP shotgun or my Remington, the #5 pellets carry a lot more velocity and energy further than does the #6 shot. The difference is that with my choked barrel, I can put more #6 shot pellets on a pheasant out at 35-40 yds, than I can using a cylinder bore MLer with #5 shot.

I think you will like the Pedersoli. The latest versions have more metal in the barrels than they used to have, so they are a bit more muzzle heavy in feel. But, being muzzle heavy allows the weight of the barrel to help continue the swing of the muzzles through the target when shooting passing birds. Stopping the swing is the biggest reason that shooters miss game. Improper pointing of the gun is next.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I shot a clay bird match in April with a borrowed SxS 12 ga.. Then this past July my son and I bought a SxS 10 ga. Pedersoli without the choke tubes. We held it for the first time at this July match where I got 8 out of 10 birds and my son went 10 for 10 and won the match. We used 1 1/2 oz of 7 1/2 shot, a pre-lubed wonder-wad, an over-powder card, a shot cushion and an over-shot card with 72 grains of 3Fg Goex. Needless to say the gun likes what we fed it.

You will like the SxS! Do yourself a favor and make a range rod with a jag that fits in the tighter-choked side with a wet patch, so you can spit-patch the thing when it needs it...we do about every 6 shots or so. Just remember to cap-off prior to reloading after using a spit-patch, so you don't get a missfire :wink: .

Let us know how she does!

Dave

P.S.: Won another clay bird shoot with the Pedersoli TODAY using the above ingredients

 

[ohio ramrod]

I have a pedroseli sxs 12 gauge that I bought new in 1972. I am very happy with it for quality and performance. I find the stock is about an inch shorter than I would like. But the quality of the gun is top notch. I shoot 1&1/8 ounce shot and 75 grain FF goex. I use one 1/2 fiber wad over powder then the shot charge wrapped in a newspaper cartridge. I make the news paper cartridges by wrappin three thicknes of newspaper arouind a 655 doll rod ( a 5/8 will work) and tie off both ends with kite string. I do not use an over shot card as the news paper cartridge serves as one as well as a shot cup. Enjoy your new toy!

 

[Flintlock58]

I like my 12 ga Pedersoli s x s. I have taken turkey, ducks, and pheasants. I have a set of 5 chokes for mine. My loads have been 80 grains of FFG BP over powder card and paper shot cartridge. I have also used plastic wads, but the paper patterns as well. shot charge is usually 1 and 1/4 oz of #4 bismuth, heavy shot or nickel coated lead for pheasants and 1 and 1/2 oz of heavy shot for waterfowl and turkey. The Curmudgeon at Ballistic Products just informed me that ITX shot is safe to shoot in muzzleloaders.

 

I have an older Pedersoli 12 ga SXS that is both good looking and shoots well. No choke tubes, cylinder and cylinder. I am also finishing a single barrel underhammer 12 ga that I intend to use for trap shooting.
Mark

 

[ebiggs1]

After reading all your positive posts on the Pedersoli, this is probably moot. But a fellow at work said you can only shoot ONE barrel at a time (in a BP shotgun) or you will dislodge the load in the other barrel. If you try to shoot it you will have a diaster because the shot and powder are not packed together any longer. Is ther any truth to this?
He says you must repack the unshot barrel before firing.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you use the proper Over Shot Cards( OS cards) in your barrel, there should be no problem with the load in the second barrel " Moving" when the first barrel is fired.

I recommend that 2 OS cards be used to seat the shot load in the second barrel, if not in both. And, always measure the bore to determine Exactly the diameter of the barrel.

My .20 gauge fowler should have the nominal .615" diameter. But, when we measured it, it is .626-627", or almost 19 gauge! The 20 ga. Over Powder wads, and OS cards were not tight enough, even tho' they are made .010" over bore diameter. So, I ordered 19 ga. wads and cards, and that has solved the problem for me.

If you don't pay attention to loading details, Yes, you can have a problem firing a double barrel gun. Mostly, the OS card comes loose, turns sideways, and lets the shot roll out the barrel. You would have to have a very weak barrel for it to burst at the pressure levels generated by normal 12 ga. loads, using Black Powder.

Since I have no idea what kind of powder your friend is using, Nor how much, I can't venture a guess as to how safe his gun may be.

 

[Rebel]

I can tell you that after putting hundreds and hundreds of of rds through my Navy Arms double barrel .12 i never once had the load in the second barrel move, even after i had fired the first barrel reloaded it and then fired that same barrel again. The load in the second barrel was fine. Just make sure you use a good tight fitting over shot card.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

:thumbsup: Ditto from this part of the Country! Our 10 ga. double always gets two overshot cards, and the load never moves!

Dave

 

[ebiggs1]

Paul,
This fellow, not a friend BTW, is another of those know it alls that no matter what, he knows it. He doesn't have a BP rifle or shotgun. I don't know if he ever shot one or not. But than again I have never shot a BP shotgun either, so I come to the experts here to make sure.
I am 90% sure I will get the Pedersoli 12 ga. It's not a great deal but it is very good.

 

[ebiggs1]

It sounds as if I "must" get this gun.
Thanx, you guys

 

[ebiggs1]

You just never know but I know I can rely on you guys.
Thanx
EB