Groups are better at 50 yards than 25 yards

[Stub]

Just put peep and globe sights on my TC Hawken. With everything the same,(load, aim point, bench rest set up), my groups are tighter at 50 yards than 25 yards. I haven't shot that much with the new sights, but the results don't make sense to me. The groups at 25 yards are about 1 1/2 inches. At 50 yards the holes are close to touching. The groups hit the targets in about the same location regardless of the distance (25 or 50) with no adjustment in the sights.
I shot several groups at 25 yards and wasn't happy that the shots weren't touching. I then shot at 50 yards and the shots formed a figure 8. I was about out of time to shoot, but I took a couple more shots and they were about 1\2 inch apart. Maybe I need to use a smaller insert in the globe sight at 25 yards.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

I over think 25 yd targets and it seems to psyche me out.

 

[kyron4]

What's your load ? PRB or conical ?

 

[Stub]

I over think 25 yd targets and it seems to psyche me out.

You maybe right. Not getting tighter groups at 25 yards was really getting to me, which is why I moved to 50 yards. I was expecting a wide group at 50 yards but was really happy with what I got. I always like to end my range time on a high note.

 

[Stub]

What's your load ? PRB or conical ?

.490 ball, 65 grains 2 F black powder ( goex) .015 patch cut at muzzle and beeswax I Crisco lube.

 

[SDSmlf]

Just a suggestion, but whatever sized target you are using at 50 yards cut the size in half for 25 yards. It will help you keep the sight picture consistent. Apparently you and your gun are agreeable to the sight picture you have at 50 yards, so work with it. I use 1-1/2” diameter at 25 yards, 3” diameter at 50 yards, 6” diameter at 100 yards and 12” diameter at 200 yards for example.

 

[Master Blaster]

Just put peep and globe sights on my TC Hawken. With everything the same,(load, aim point, bench rest set up), my groups are tighter at 50 yards than 25 yards. I haven't shot that much with the new sights, but the results don't make sense to me. The groups at 25 yards are about 1 1/2 inches. At 50 yards the holes are close to touching. The groups hit the targets in about the same location regardless of the distance (25 or 50) with no adjustment in the sights.
I shot several groups at 25 yards and wasn't happy that the shots weren't touching. I then shot at 50 yards and the shots formed a figure 8. I was about out of time to shoot, but I took a couple more shots and they were about 1\2 inch apart. Maybe I need to use a smaller insert in the globe sight at 25 yards.

Pictures of the rifle and sights, please?

 

[Grenadier1758]

I'm thinking like @SDSmlf. If you are shooting the same target at 25 and 50 yards, then the sight picture at 50 yards is more compatible to your sight than the sight picture at 25 yards. With a peep sight, you are putting a string of circles to be viewed around one center. A larger sight aperture in the globe sight for 25 yards might actually shrink the group as you will have more definition between the circles in the sights and the circle of the target. Perhaps the post aperture in the globe front sight might work better for both targets. Elevation may change, but consistency of the hold on the target may improve.

 

[Stub]

I’m away from home for a week so I can’t get pictures of my gun for awhile.
I use 3 inch bullseye at 25 yards and 10 inch @ 50.

 

[Semisane]

If you're holding on the center of the bull, try a 6 o'clock hold. It's much more precise with a peep at any range.

 

[Stub]

If you're holding on the center of the bull, try a 6 o'clock hold. It's much more precise with a peep at any range.

I was thinking that the main reason for using a globe sight was to circle the bullseye with the insert. I figured the post insert was for hunting.
I assume you must use The post insert for 6 o’clock hold?

 

[russellshaffer]

The old saying of "aim small, hit small" comes to my mind. Personally, I think 3 inches is way too big for 25 yards unless there is a contrasting small aiming point in the center?

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Just a suggestion, but whatever sized target you are using at 50 yards cut the size in half for 25 yards.

It could be that, for example, at this past weekend’s NE flintlock invitational championship shoot, the 25-yard target was 3” black bull (all bullseyes were the 8 ring to X-ring), a 6”bull @ 50Y and a 12” bull @ 100Y.

 

[azmntman]

I was thinking that the main reason for using a globe sight was to circle the bullseye with the insert.

Have never heard of that myself? I always use a cowboy type site with the post level with tops of rear site and six O'Clock myself.

Always believed the globe up front was to keep sun glare off the post. I don't use em.

 

[Stub]

The old saying of "aim small, hit small" comes to my mind. Personally, I think 3 inches is way too big for 25 yards unless there is a contrasting small aiming point in the center?

You may be right, I’ll try a smaller target.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Stub - I was thinking that the main reason for using a globe sight was to circle the bullseye with the insert.

AZMntman - Have never heard of that myself? Always believed the globe up front was to keep sun glare off the post. I don't use em.

Yes Stub, do not confuse a Globe or 'round' front sight body (which holds the sight insert and keeps the sun/glare off the insert) with a 'round' front sight insert. For strict target shooting at a known distance and properly sized insert (to fit the bullseye so enough 'white' shows around it), this type of 'circle' insert is THE most acccurate and repeatable ... however not too many like to shoot that way, nor take the time to learn how to do so. It is very popular in air rifle and Olympic ISU shooting.

As AZmtnman says, many use a peep rear sight with a simple verticle blade or 'post' for the front sight or front sight insert, for both hunting and/or target use. Used with a rear 'peep' or more properly called an aperture sight, these front sight inserts have a similar optical benefit as to a scope in that it puts both the target and front sight onto the same optical plane.

 

[Rock Home Isle]

Just put peep and globe sights on my TC Hawken. With everything the same,(load, aim point, bench rest set up), my groups are tighter at 50 yards than 25 yards. I haven't shot that much with the new sights, but the results don't make sense to me. The groups at 25 yards are about 1 1/2 inches. At 50 yards the holes are close to touching. The groups hit the targets in about the same location regardless of the distance (25 or 50) with no adjustment in the sights.
I shot several groups at 25 yards and wasn't happy that the shots weren't touching. I then shot at 50 yards and the shots formed a figure 8. I was about out of time to shoot, but I took a couple more shots and they were about 1\2 inch apart. Maybe I need to use a smaller insert in the globe sight at 25 yards.

Oh that’s simple…if you find yourself inside of 25 yards during hunting season, back up a lot before you start shooting.

Problem solved.

 

[Stub]

Oh that’s simple…if you find yourself inside of 25 yards during hunting season, back up a lot before you start shooting.

Problem solved.

 

[JBird]

Sounds like a mental thing, Similar to my experiences trying to shoot any modern gun with a magnified optic. Cant achieve anything resembling consistency, Reticle just moves too much as opposed to irons which just look stationary

 

[pmccoywss]

Just put peep and globe sights on my TC Hawken. With everything the same,(load, aim point, bench rest set up), my groups are tighter at 50 yards than 25 yards

You don't say what front sight insert you are using in the Globe, post or aperture.

If it is an aperture the answer to your problem is that it is too small at 25 yards, but decent sized at 50 yards. Many folks try to get a very thin ring of light around the sighting bull, but a larger ring of light is much better. Old rule is " err on the larger size".