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Hawken gun kit
- Thread starter billk
- Start date
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The most authentic kit is by Don Stith. Copied off of originals he owns.[url]
www.donstith.com[/url]
Bill
Bill
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Mark Lewis said:
Why is that? It has a shorter barrel and ram rod channel. I'm curious, please explain why a Hawken is soooo much harder to build.
Please entertain us with some divine knowledge and negative remarks that you spew about the forums.
For a guy that has over two thousand post in less then two years, it must be a regular occupation for you on a daily basis. Thanks in advance. :grin:
longcruise
70 Cal.
I like the Don Stith kits as well as the Hawken Shop kits, but I'm thinking my next Hunting rifle will be along the lines of a full stock flint plains rifle (the genre of which the Hawken rifles fit into) but more of a generic rifle that might have been made by one of the lesser know makers.
That probably doesn't make much sense, but that's what I'm thinking. :redface:
That probably doesn't make much sense, but that's what I'm thinking. :redface:
Mark has seen a fair share of good Hawkens. I seem to remember a Santa Fe Hawken. We both knew Bill Decker of Pensacola, Fl when he was making some of the finest Hawkens I have ever seen. I have seen several originals. Don Stith makes a fine Hawken that is one of the best currently made.
The real difficulty in making a Hawken is achieving that blend of construction that allows the parts to flow together and even as heavy as they can get, handle easily, point well and even with a thin buttplate, absorb recoil of a large caliber gun.
The under rib is a real pain. Getting the patent breech to properly line up so the parts match at the breech takes a lot of time. Then most locks and breeches don't match up well. Its the aligning of the hammer nose to the nipple face that did me in on my rifle. The geometry of a replica of one of Sam Hawken's rifles is difficult to duplicate. Anyway my rifle is below. The iron mountings are very dark so the image is a little dark.
My vote for the most authentic kit would be Don Stith or Track of the Wolf. My lock and breech came from Track.
The real difficulty in making a Hawken is achieving that blend of construction that allows the parts to flow together and even as heavy as they can get, handle easily, point well and even with a thin buttplate, absorb recoil of a large caliber gun.
The under rib is a real pain. Getting the patent breech to properly line up so the parts match at the breech takes a lot of time. Then most locks and breeches don't match up well. Its the aligning of the hammer nose to the nipple face that did me in on my rifle. The geometry of a replica of one of Sam Hawken's rifles is difficult to duplicate. Anyway my rifle is below. The iron mountings are very dark so the image is a little dark.
My vote for the most authentic kit would be Don Stith or Track of the Wolf. My lock and breech came from Track.
I cant speak for authenticity, but pecatonica are great to deal with. Im very impressed with their help on the phone, to get help dont both emailing/faxing call them and talk to them.I built a half stock hawken as a first project (im currently on my third) and wish i had taken more time finnishing. I would also opt if its a percussion, for the lock plate without the cut out in it (the cut out to accomodate the patent breach)cos what they cut out wont fit the breach properly, YOU will have to fit it together to achieve a snug fit. With regards to the patent breach dont do what i did and ask the to fit it, sure they did a good job, but i didnt. I left the plug as it came and would have been better smoothing out the flash channel/hole in the breach i get some missfires. You live a learn.
Regards Dobson
Regards Dobson
Inletting the breechplug/tang and nose cap so they look nice is hard. There are ways to do this that make it easier, but I'm sure you already know that.
I want a correct tapered barrel Hawken but I can't find anyone that I trust that will take on the job, and I don't feel like messing up another one. I'm picky and it has to be perfect if I'm gonna spend $2000-$3000 on it.
Good luck with your build! I'd go with the Don Stith parts set.
I want a correct tapered barrel Hawken but I can't find anyone that I trust that will take on the job, and I don't feel like messing up another one. I'm picky and it has to be perfect if I'm gonna spend $2000-$3000 on it.
Good luck with your build! I'd go with the Don Stith parts set.
Thank you for you comments. I am not looking to build one at this moment. I had "The Gunworks" make me one in .54 cal, 34 inch barrel in curly maple half stock and I am very pleased with it. It has a straight barrel. The wood and metal fit are fist class and it balances nicely. I am still learning how to shoot it.
Delivery time was about 8 or 9 months and Joe and Suzie at "The Gunworks" was a pleasure to work with.
Recently I have been lookning at various kits and pictures of finished Hawkens and I must say that I like the lines of the full stock Hawken very much. I would like to try my hands in building a rifle for hunting in the future. I am undecided between a full stock .54 cal Hawken style (34 inch barrel) and a Haynes .54 cal flintlock style rifle kit from Dunlap wood works or Jim Chambers (38 inch barrel).
Your comments, suggestions, experiences are most welcomed.
BillK
Delivery time was about 8 or 9 months and Joe and Suzie at "The Gunworks" was a pleasure to work with.
Recently I have been lookning at various kits and pictures of finished Hawkens and I must say that I like the lines of the full stock Hawken very much. I would like to try my hands in building a rifle for hunting in the future. I am undecided between a full stock .54 cal Hawken style (34 inch barrel) and a Haynes .54 cal flintlock style rifle kit from Dunlap wood works or Jim Chambers (38 inch barrel).
Your comments, suggestions, experiences are most welcomed.
BillK
I've built both the Stith and Pecatonica kits and the Stith is more "authentic" but the Pecatonica is more comfortable to shoot w/ unaltered parts. The skinny, crescent shaped buttplate on the Stith may be more HC but the customer asked me to reduce the crescent as much as I could and the result was still HC looking and w/ hunting clothes on, was more comfortable than before. My elk rifle is the Pecatonica and the buttplate is much flatter and wider and can be shot all day w/o any bruised shoulders and 130 grs ffg. w/ .54 PRB is a stiff load. For hunting either would be alright and the Stith certainly is pleasing to the eye when compared to photos of original Hawkens. The prompt help Don Stith rendered asre the shape around the tang was outstanding and his e-mailed pics of originals pertaining to the troublesome areas, enabled me to proceed w/ confidence. One item that needs to be mentioned is that of a tapered bbl which is standard w/ the Stith and which produces a much better balanced rifle. My Pecatonica w/ a straight bbl is much more muzzle heavy although 4" shorter than the Stith. The 2 difficult areas found on "Hawkens" that aren't normally encountered on LRs are the hooked breech and tang and the attachment of the bbl underrib and both of these shouldn't be a discouragement if thoroughly thought out.......Good luck.....Fred
BillK,
I know some fellows say that TOTW kits are not historically accurate, but I have one of their Jim Bridger Hawkens and it is a fine gun, although with the one inch plus barrel its a little front heavy. The kit was put together by Mr. John Bergmann of Tennessee and he did an excellent job. I am very pleased with mine, it has the .54 Green Mtn. barrel, but you can upgrade things if you want. Good luck.
I know some fellows say that TOTW kits are not historically accurate, but I have one of their Jim Bridger Hawkens and it is a fine gun, although with the one inch plus barrel its a little front heavy. The kit was put together by Mr. John Bergmann of Tennessee and he did an excellent job. I am very pleased with mine, it has the .54 Green Mtn. barrel, but you can upgrade things if you want. Good luck.
Are the kits from the Hawken Shop not accurate ?
If they are not accurate what is incorrect ?
Just a little side note:
If the crescent shaped butt plate is bruising your shoulder,IMHO, you are holding the rifle incorrectly. Try placing the butt plate on your arm,above the bicep.I shoot like this with stout loads with no problems.
If they are not accurate what is incorrect ?
Just a little side note:
If the crescent shaped butt plate is bruising your shoulder,IMHO, you are holding the rifle incorrectly. Try placing the butt plate on your arm,above the bicep.I shoot like this with stout loads with no problems.
If you like the full stock Hawken, it would be easier to build than the halfstock IMO. The tang can be temp. epoxied to the hooked breach and then you'd just inlet the whole thing. I suppose a full stock hawken should be a flintlock, or built to look like it was converted to percussion using a drum and nipple now that I think about it.
Don't forget the Leman. It would be pretty easy to build, and makes a very attractive rifle IMO.
Don't forget the Leman. It would be pretty easy to build, and makes a very attractive rifle IMO.
I'm only relating about the 2 "Hawkens" that I have first hand knowledge about. The Hawken Shop and TOW supply "Hawken" kits but don't know how "authentic" they are....this concerns the original question posed by the initial poster. A radically crescent shaped buttplate was a fad seeing it phased out quickly and I've never shot rifles { modern or MLer } w/ the butt craddled on the arm {ouch!} and think that it's a poor practice. A contortionist I'm not!......Fred
Shooting with the crescent on the arm does Not hurt at ALL. It is also very stable. If you can mount a rifle to your shoulder then you would have no problem mounting it above your bicep. You do Not need to be a contortionist. Try it .... you will like it 
Nobody that I know of shoots "off the arm" and I belong to 2 gunclubs. I was taught that when the gun was mounted on the shoulder, the face shouldn't move....the gun is in alignment w/ the eye. Shooting w/ the gun mounted on the arm doesn't meet this requirement and requires addt'l head movement to align the eye w/ the sights. Way too complicated, uncomfortable and time wasting to satisfy a fad that was dumped shortly there after. If you could, observe good shotgunners....they "shoulder" the gun quickly and don't have time to fiddle-diddle around w/ head movement and take a late shot at the bird. Time is of the essence and "arm holds" aren't ever used......Fred
My Hawken is the only rifle I shoot that way. (Maybe the reasons you gave are why this style of butt plate went out of fashion)If you have the chance to shoulder a Hawken... give it a try before dismissing it. The recoil (perceived) is less than that of the rifle held into the shoulder. Plus, it is very comfortable to shoot it this way. Don't knock it till you try it.
PS: I don't think of a Hawken Rifle as a bird gun.I do not believe shotgunners use guns with a crescent shaped butt plate as found on a Hawken. . If they did they would soon adapt their gun mounting skills.
PS: I don't think of a Hawken Rifle as a bird gun.I do not believe shotgunners use guns with a crescent shaped butt plate as found on a Hawken. . If they did they would soon adapt their gun mounting skills.
I dont know that anyone did answer what you asked, from what the best of Hawken maker's have said here the last few years and ck MUzzle Blast last year ran a thing on building one that went on for about 5 month's - it is one of the hardst to build RIGHT, as MB said Most builder's wont touch one now days. All of them look like Hawken's,but if youv ever gone over the ? 8 to 10 pages of plan's sold for 40 something (Gray Wolf put up) this rifle has all kinds of little tyrns ect. Do your home work and good luck. FRED :hatsoff: ( Don S is a about the bestand catch him on a good day Cooner 54 know's as much as anyone about these, and can build same.(he starts by growing the right tree!))
