HC barrel finish for a 1770s...

[rich pierce]

Well, the topic lives on!

What about actual period evidence? Some/maybe most of the best-preserved colonial period longrifles are those captured by the British and taken back as souvenirs of war. This is obviously a small sampling. But these guns were preserved, for the most part (exceptions exist) as they were when captured. They did not receive another 20-60 years of field use. One of the Oerter rifles captured by England is bright in barrel and lock finish.

I re-rifled several original barrels that were browned, all right - above the wood. Below the wood they were not. Tarnished, yes. Browned - not. A clear line where the external surfaces got “browned” by exposure to elements for decades.

Few people come at a topic without a bias. I’ll make the wild guess that some of the most passionate supporters of “of course they were browned” have one or more black powder rifles with browned barrels and zero with barrels in the white.

In the end, some keep exploring and learning, and others are content with what they are certain of, often quoting what experts wrote 20, 30, 40, maybe 50 years ago.

 

[Rudyard]

Wow, let's make more assumptions, shall we?

As we are getting way off the thread topic, I will not engage with you any more... (Presses ignore button)

I knew Lynton Mackenzie when he was in the UK and an active member of the MLAGB ,then after he got lured to New Orlean's . Then he did' Friendship' shoots along with the other worthies mentioned before the 'Gunmakers Hall' got built we had great' jam?' sessions in an dusty empty booth Lewis Sancez did a carving design talk & Lyton talked about Engraveing . He did'nt like the English curiously naive game engraveing. often found. But I stood up for that style, Birds with flowers & a fence Cross eyed lions ect . A young Mike Lee had a booth close to George Shumways . Thats going back.
' Old' Rudyard
PS as to the actual debate Ime not Ama dent either way if they want it white they get it .if brown they get that . But that's mostly your long rifle sorts . Ive never focused on them, made enough though . Once made a Lancaster style Wilson UK made export rifle for De Witt Bailey .Talk about 'Coals to New Castle 'Don't know where it got to ' Cositrike' might know ?.
R

 

[brazosland]

Rich,

Do you have any pics of a modern iron barrel in final finished form?

Curious what level of polish it would have and how it would “grey” with use and reasonable care.. compared to the modern steel that we all have experience with now.

 

[rich pierce]

Rich,

Do you have any pics of a modern iron barrel in final finished form?

Curious what level of polish it would have and how it would “grey” with use and reasonable care.. compared to the modern steel that we all have experience with now.

Brazos, do you mean what does a wrought iron barrel look like in final finished form? Exactly like mild steel without magnification. In fact most tests of whether a piece of “iron” is wrought or mild steel are destructive. Either a spark test or a cut 3/4 of the way through a rod then bend it till it breaks. If wrought it will show some layer splitting. If mild, it will just break off.

I see descriptions of properties of wrought iron that don’t line up with my experience.

1) First repeated piece of “common knowledge” that doesn’t match my experience : Wrought iron is so soft you can cut it with a knife. Not sure how wrought iron nails could be that soft and work. Same with horseshoes. Guess they didn’t last long back then? It’s just the same to file and hacksaw as mild modern steel.

2) Second piece of “common knowledge” that doesn’t match my experience: Wrought iron resists rusting much better than modern barrels. Hmmm, not sure why barrels needed freshing of the rifling so often. Oops look at #1. I guess it’s because it was so soft! Joking aside, all that pitting we see on wrought iron barrels is from corrosion. Soldiers were required to “keep their barrels bright.” That says it tarnished.

We hear a lot about not wanting any “shine.” This drives the desire of many today for iron mounted rifles, for walnut-stained garb, and browned barrels. This is a modern view of camouflage that many who love times long-gone embrace. It’s what we were taught in all the outdoor magazines. Yet Native Americans wanted red cloth, vermilion, trade silver, and so on. I don’t see “olive drab” or “camouflage cloth” in trade lists. These things are modern approaches. Did they sometimes disguise for hunting and stealth warfare? Yes. But for battle? Less.

My views; others vary and I hope they do what they want, not what I think is best in such areas.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Down here unless you polish the barrel and keep the gun in a controlled humidity storage you will have a browned barrel soon enough. IT'S going to happen so I decided to like it.

You will definitely have a barrel that develops a patina, but that is far from the browned barrels that became popular in the early 1800's. The Brown Bess (Land Pattern Musket) was never brown, except for those used by Roger's Rangers in the F&I War. The Brits actually polished the barrels of their muskets using water and brickdust to shine them. (Note*** composition of bricks changed in the 1930's and again after WWII and are not suitable for polishing your barrel the way the British Army did in the 1700's.) But those Brits with their red coats wanted you to see them coming so they kept the barrels of their muskets well polished as well as their bayonets - they were not trying to hide. They wanted to intimidate you as they maneuvered for attack. Roger's Rangers on the other hand never polished their muskets because they didn't want to be seen.

You are certainly correct that an untreated barrel would rust quickly but a light coat of oil keeps that in moderation. Back in the 18th ct. bear grease and bear oil were both used. The Bear oil was used on the barrel, the lock, and in the bore. Bear grease was often used as patch lube. One of the members of the reenactment group I belonged to in Virginia in the early 2000's used bear grease and oil exclusively on his musket. That kept it in great shape and it did not turn into a rusty stick.

The barrel of my Early Lancaster rifle was "in the white" when I bought it. Was not polished, but had no rust on it. it never turned brown and still is not brown about 20-years later. I was very active in reenactments in both Vermont (1998-2005), when I lived there and also Virginia (2005-2015). I spent a lot of weekends in a tent in all kinds of weather including unceasing rain and also snow. When I clean my rifle, I also wipe down the barrel on the outside besides in the bore. I also put a light coat of oil on the outside after cleaning it as well as in the bore. It definitely has some patina to the barrel but it could never be called browned.

At a reenactment in October at Yorktown in about 2006, we had almost incessant rain one night and the next morning it continued to come down. I awoke that Sunday morning nice and dry (good tent) but. had rust on the outside of my barrel. When I got home that evening I took one of those green Scotch-Brite scrubbing pads to the barrel and it knocked that surface rust right off. Had me worried for a bit. Oiled it up and was none the worse for wear and still isn't.

Here's the barrel of my Early Lancaster after ~20-years of use. I typically wipe down the barrel with MAP to get off any fouling and remove any dirt, then dry it with a few dry patches and run a patch moistened with gun oil over the outside of the barrel after I've cleaned and oiled the bore and the lock. It's certainly has a patina and is not what I would call bright anymore, but it's closer to bright than the browned barrels you'll see.

As mentioned before in other messages, charcoal bluing was also used back then although not as often. In the white (no finish applied) was common, and browned was unusual, but not entirely unheard of.

 

[flconch53]

The effect down here actually looks pretty good. About once a year I disassemble everything and then wipe everything down with a coat of lemon juice. This helps smooth out the surface corrosion then rinse with warm water , then oil everything it stays nice and uniform that way