How does a Bowie differ from other large knives?

[tenngun]

After reading through this thread I have to wonder when a "sax"becomes a bowie, I spect the same place a franken becomes a tomahawk.

 

[satx78247]

tenngun,

I suspect that when the Europeans started trading weapons to our people, they copied the "franken". That would be much easier than "re-inventing the wheel".

Otoh, I have no idea if there is any real similarity between a "sax" and a "Bowie", aside form the obvious that both are sizeable fighting knives.
(To me, the Germanic sax looks like the father of the Arkansas Toothpick.)

just my "SWAG".

NOTE: I'm planning on building myself a toothpick, for my NA/"dirt farmer" impression.
(Toothpicks were "popular" with our tribe in the 1800s.)
For one thing, a toothpick style blade would be easy & cheap for a local blacksmith to forge/sharpen & then to "affix the grip" with lots of local materials.
(Some of the older ones had grips made of Bois d'arc, oak or hickory.)

yours, satx

 

[tenngun]

I've seen photos in books of saxxes that looked like toothpicks,gladdei,bowies and cutlasses. I spect they wern't as picky with the names then, as we get today.
of corse short poket guns were made before derringer, plaid was worn before scotland.I Don't know if 1840 frontersman would recognise what we call bowies,and might of called a knife a bowie that we would not call one today.
During the war for southren indepedence some arkansas regiments were armed with knifes they called bowies that we today would call toothpicks.

 

[Rifleman1776]

The original question was:

How does a Bowie differ from other large knives?

The answer is two part.
1) It is the only knife in which the mere mention of the style name starts a never-ending discussion of thousands of words.
2) Only Arkansans know the 'real facts' about Bowie knives, Texans are only pretenders.
Am I going to get called to the sandbar now? :wink:

 

[Billnpatti]

Sir, please step to the sandbar. :blah:

Several large belt knives have been called Bowie's. Jim bowie appears to have had more than just one knife that he made bloody use of. They were not all of the same design but all appear to have been rather large. At some point in time the large belt knife with the clip point gained fame as the "Bowie knife". Since it is not fully documented which knife Jim Bowie had at the Alamo, we don't know what he actually preferred. Many fiction stories refer to the clip point design as "The" Bowie knife. Some better documented stories seem to speak of his fighting style which would have suggested the use of a clip point because one witness of his sandbar fight said that he plunged his knife in and down and then slashed up to disembowel his opponent. In reality, no one can point to a specific knife and say for certain that this is the real Bowie knife because he had more than one large belt knife during his life and their designs appear to have varied. His "Alamo knife" is lost so no one knows what it looked like.

 

[Claude Mathis]

Several large belt knives have been called Bowie's. Jim bowie appears to have had more than just one knife that he made bloody use of. They were not all of the same design but all appear to have been rather large. At some point in time the large belt knife with the clip point gained fame as the "Bowie knife". Since it is not fully documented which knife Jim Bowie had at the Alamo, we don't know what he actually preferred. Many fiction stories refer to the clip point design as "The" Bowie knife. Some better documented stories seem to speak of his fighting style which would have suggested the use of a clip point because one witness of his sandbar fight said that he plunged his knife in and down and then slashed up to disembowel his opponent. In reality, no one can point to a specific knife and say for certain that this is the real Bowie knife because he had more than one large belt knife during his life and their designs appear to have varied. His "Alamo knife" is lost so no one knows what it looked like.

This, for me, pretty much sums up the reality of it. :thumbsup:

Over time, the term "Bowie" has become synonymous with a large knife, the way Coke can mean any soft drink, or Kleenex any tissue brand. The general public really doesn't care what Jim Bowie owned, the term "Bowie", as it refers to knives, means something different to them now. IMO

 

[satx78247]

tenngun; Rifleman1776; Billnpatti; Claude,

tenngun: AGREED.

Rifleman1776: Chances are that you'll soon need "to select weapons" and ask directions to the local "field of honor".
(CHUCKLE.)

Billnpatti, Claude": My guess is that you both are 100% correct.
I have seen a "Bowie knife" (described in an after action report of a skirmish in the CBI of WWII), that looks more like a curved short sword or perhaps a "fancy" machete than anything resembling a "traditional Bowie", as the blade is over 18 inches in length and about 3 inches wide at its widest point.

yours, satx

 

[Rifleman1776]

For the record, Arkansans love Texans. But we also love to pretend we hate them.
But when Arkansas and Texas meet in sport you won't see much love on the field..... :shocked2: :wink:

 

[satx78247]

VERY TRUE.
When I was a denizen of The 40 Acres, our legendary coach, Darryl Royal, said, "Last week our team traveled to Fayetteville. I felt about as welcome as if I had parachuted into Red China."

In my long ago "college DAZE", I drove ALPHA PHI OMEGA's burnt orange van, pulling the UT trailer, that contained "The World's Largest Texas Flag", (The flag was 30x50 yards & about 600 pounds.) and several service stations in NW Arkansas refused to sell me gasoline.

yours, satx

 

[Rifleman1776]

When I was a denizen of The 40 Acres, our legendary coach, Darryl Royal, said, "Last week our team traveled to Fayetteville. I felt about as welcome as if I had parachuted into Red China."

That is funny and often very true.
The part about the gas stations is different. Downright rude and inexcusable.
My apologies for that. :v

 

[satx78247]

Rifleman1776,

NO apology required. ====> There are IDIOTS in EVERY place.

Incidently, Texas has MANY Razorback FANATICS.
(My late Aunt Gladys E_________ for just ONE.= She used to sponsor THE HOG PEN on US Hwy 67 in Mt Pleasant when the UofA was playing ballgames in TX & only wore RED & WHITE on game-day, as long as she lived.)

More than once, when I was a teenager, I got to help DYE the BIG hog with RED food coloring, so that he would be "NICE & RED" for game weekends.

yours, satx

 

[Wes/Tex]

:rotf: :rotf: You guys !!!

 

[Many Klatch]

Here is a picture of a SAX. A blacksmith in Finland made it for me. He copied it from some museum drawings. This would be a Viking era knife. The blade is about 1/4" thick and it weighs in at about 1-1/4 pounds. The handle is made of Curly Birch.



As you can see it looks a lot like any other big knife. There is nothing new under the sun. Just old stuff recycled in new ways.

Many Klatch

 

[Pete44ru]

IMO, yer blade looks more to be a Green River pattern (below), rather than a bowie

.

 

[crockett]

Well, getting back to the original question, lots of wiggle room. Personally I thought a Bowie knife was a 10" plus blade with clip point and a double guard- "all the bells and whistles". When I started reading about the knife Bowie actually used my thought was . "Gee, Jim Bowie's knife doesn't look much like a real Bowie knife".

 

[Wes/Tex]

Well, getting back to the original question, lots of wiggle room. Personally I thought a Bowie knife was a 10" plus blade with clip point and a double guard- "all the bells and whistles". When I started reading about the knife Bowie actually used my thought was . "Gee, Jim Bowie's knife doesn't look much like a real Bowie knife".

That happens every time something gets named after it's inventor or popular user...everybody making a copy adds their own touch. Sooner or later, Jim Bowie would never recognize it as being something he started! :wink:

Since clipped points and double guards had both been around a long time, it's obvious it was the guy and not the knife that was the start of the legend! And yes, the original knife Bowie carried and Smithwick made copies of, looked very plain in comparison of what's being passed off as "Bowie" knives ever since.

 

[Jo]

Good question, the Bowie Knife was never a single design, but a line up that was improved over time.From my reading one of earliest bowies designed by Jim's brother Rezin and built by Jesses Clifft, resembled a "butcher knife," it was straight backed and 1/4" thick and 9 1/2" long blade. However today the "Bowie" commonly is a "clipped" blade similar to the Ka-Bar fighting knife. But keep in mind any knife larger than a pen knife has been called a "Bowie."

 

:snore:

 

[LRB]

That was not really necessary Jack. I'm sure many here feel the same about a lot of your postings. Just saying. :v

 

[Jo]

That was not really necessary Jack. I'm sure many here feel the same about a lot of your postings. Just saying. :v

Thanks :hatsoff: