How Far Can You Make Successful Kill Shots ?.

[sheriff john]

Taught combat pistol & shotgun over 25 years w/sheriff's academy. Early on, at the FBI instructor course, we learned a standard paper plate is nearly identical to the kill zone on the B-27 silhouette target. For those unfamiliar, the B-27 give points almost no matter where a bullet strikes, so cadets would shoot at the whole target, not the kill zone/X ring. When we switched to stapling a paper plate over the center of mass and only scored those on the plate, scores improved much faster.

His theory was to visualize the paper plate as your target, not the life-size black silhouette. It not only works, but everyone has access to paper plates for practice. After mastering the full-size plate, we transitioned to the smaller "dessert plate". Then back to the standard B-27 for qualification.

Timed fire, starting at 7 yards, ending at 50 yards (L/R barricade, kneeling, prone, weak hand/strong hand) with duty pistol. Shoot small, hit small.

Agree with previous posters - when you can't put every shot in a paper plate, that's as far as you need to be shooting at a deer.

If you want to see shot distances shrink when hunters tell stories, use a good range finder to check the distance.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

I can put ‘em all on a 6” target out to 50 yds consistently. But that’s at the range. In the bush or forest is a different challenge.

 

[64Springer]

I can put ‘em all on a 6” target out to 50 yds consistently. But that’s at the range. In the bush or forest is a different challenge.

This is what a lot of bench rest hunters refuse to understand.

Excitement. Nervousness. Heart Rate. Anticipation. Worry. Flinch. Up Hill Shots. Down Hill Shots. All play a part in a clean and ethical kill.

The above doesn't happen on a bench. That's why groups have to be tight and consistent. Three inch groups. Four inches max. If you can't do this, you have no business being in the woods.

.02

 

[Omahkapi'si]

Pays to practice off hand too I think. I always shoot off hand.

 

[DuncNZ]

Sorry man, but I have been fighting this attitude of, "minute of bad guy," or in these cases, "minute of deer vitals," since I started teaching practical pistol shooting 25 or so years ago. This attitude irritates the heck out of me. It can be dangerous in the practical shooting arena or unethical in the hunting arena.
If minute of bad guy is the best one cab do with their pistol or carbine under controlled range conditions (and controlled emotional conditions), that person is in for a very rude awakening if ever really put to the test. At best, they will lose, at worst, they will shoot and kill the wrong person (we had an actual case of that here some years back). With hunters, if the best they can do at the range is keep all their shots in an area (can't even call it a group) the full size of the vitals, at known distances, under controlled conditions and with no emotional stress, it leaves them wide open to a variety of factors causing them to at best miss completely, and at worse wound an animal leaving it to suffer. The animal suffers because some human settled for, "good enough."

Sorry.
Like I said, the subject gets me fired up, so off I went again.

You obviously live in a different world to me when you even mention minute of bad guy etc .To even mention shooting people on a ML forum makes me wonder about you.
What I am talking about is not minute of anything , it is the size of a kill zone on your target animal and the ability to place a bullet in that zone and using the knowledge of and use of the shooting position needed to enable that shot to be taken with consideration of the distance to that target. This is to reduce the variable the shooter has the most control over , you can't change the light , wind , weather etc but you can go to your most stable position .
I will always go to the most stable firing position available before taking a shot and if the distance of the animal is too great for the position available I won't shoot .
Most people are very bad judges of distance , especially when deer hunting , modern range finders are sure thing to help with this problem .
I deer stalk on high mountain tussock land above the tree line , constantly glassing and moving , or in dense Southern Hemisphere rain forest , (for forest read jungle) also constantly moving and glassing . I usually shoot deer in the neck for instant kills and less
meat damage.
PS I shoot mainly Red deer and a paper dinner plate is about the size of the deers vital area ,
PPS I shoot mainly from prone which is why my ML deer rifle has an English type butt plate because crescent butt plates bite too much

 

[SciAggie]

Earlier in the season I shot a doe (field conditions) at 85 yards - missed my aim point about 3”.
Later I missed a dear at about 35 yards with a nice rest in a blind. (I got a bit excited)
Today I shot this bobcat at about 50 yards in field conditions. I drilled it exactly where I was aiming.
The point is that as others have said - when you’re in the field, how excited you are, heart rate, the kind of rest - all matter.

 

[64Springer]

In all my years of looking at dead animals on the internet, I have never seen a dead bobcat.

Color me impressed.

Having a bobcat in your sights is definitely the time to relax and focus. More so than killing deer. Cuzz Bambi won't wrap its legs around you and eat your face.

 

[NARC50]

I limit myself to 50 yds. I have missed a buck at 20 yards a year ago. I was sitting in the stand and shot at him through what I thought was a clear alley. Turns out there was a pinky sized twig that deflected my prb enough to absolutely demolish the sapling he was standing next to.

One of my goals this year is to shoot more consistently at 100 yards, but I don’t know that I will change my max hunting range.

For me, I mostly enjoy getting out. Once the deer is on the ground then I start thinking about all the work to dress and process.

 

[64Springer]

You obviously live in a different world to me when you even mention minute of bad guy etc .To even mention shooting people on a ML forum makes me wonder about you.
What I am talking about is not minute of anything , it is the size of a kill zone on your target animal and the ability to place a bullet in that zone and using the knowledge of and use of the shooting position needed to enable that shot to be taken with consideration of the distance to that target. This is to reduce the variable the shooter has the most control over , you can't change the light , wind , weather etc but you can go to your most stable position .
I will always go to the most stable firing position available before taking a shot and if the distance of the animal is too great for the position available I won't shoot .
Most people are very bad judges of distance , especially when deer hunting , modern range finders are sure thing to help with this problem .
I deer stalk on high mountain tussock land above the tree line , constantly glassing and moving , or in dense Southern Hemisphere rain forest , (for forest read jungle) also constantly moving and glassing . I usually shoot deer in the neck for instant kills and less
meat damage.
PS I shoot mainly Red deer and a paper dinner plate is about the size of the deers vital area ,
PPS I shoot mainly from prone which is why my ML deer rifle has an English type butt plate because crescent butt plates bite too much

Humans engage in self defense shooting all the time. Even muzzle loading humans. It says nothing bad about the guy that spoke of it.

And MOT, Minute Of Torso, does carry over into hunting. People get the idea that close is good enough. It's a terrible mindset to get into. It's a bad habit that has to be unlearned.

Also, I commend you for putting up some deer anatomy. Took 65 posts for someone to do it. This is another good one that I go back and look at before every season. Just to get my bearings again. Color too.

 

[chorizo]

Some people are more composed, more studied, more practiced and more capable than others. Not talking down, just stating what is reality.

Those that are simply have a better time of it than others.

 

[Brokennock]

You obviously live in a different world to me when you even mention minute of bad guy etc .To even mention shooting people on a ML forum makes me wonder about you.
What I am talking about is not minute of anything , it is the size of a kill zone on your target animal and the ability to place a bullet in that zone and using the knowledge of and use of the shooting position needed to enable that shot to be taken with consideration of the distance to that target. This is to reduce the variable the shooter has the most control over , you can't change the light , wind , weather etc but you can go to your most stable position .
I will always go to the most stable firing position available before taking a shot and if the distance of the animal is too great for the position available I won't shoot .
Most people are very bad judges of distance , especially when deer hunting , modern range finders are sure thing to help with this problem .
I deer stalk on high mountain tussock land above the tree line , constantly glassing and moving , or in dense Southern Hemisphere rain forest , (for forest read jungle) also constantly moving and glassing . I usually shoot deer in the neck for instant kills and less
meat damage.
PS I shoot mainly Red deer and a paper dinner plate is about the size of the deers vital area ,
PPS I shoot mainly from prone which is why my ML deer rifle has an English type butt plate because crescent butt plates bite too much

I understand that a paper plate is about the size of your deers vitals.
I'm saying that if the maximum size you need to hit is your best accuracy standard, whether it is deer or dirt-bags, it is a set up for failure at some point.

You obviously live in a different world to me when you even mention minute of bad guy etc .To even mention shooting people on a ML forum makes me wonder about you.

It was a comparison, an analogy. Maybe you can't understand this.
That you get bothered by the reality that we live in an increasingly violent world, and someone might be trained to deal with it and teach others to do so also, then use those real world shooting experiences to make a comparison, makes me wonder about you too. There is evil in the world,,,, sounds like you better have good running shoes.

 

[64Springer]

Hood running shoes?

Are those the ones you pump up or the ones you steal from someone else?

 

[Brokennock]

Hood running shoes?

Are those the ones you pump up or the ones you steal from someone else?

Lmao
Thanks. Edited that for fat finger spelling blunder.

 

[DuncNZ]

I understand that a paper plate is about the size of your deers vitals.
I'm saying that if the maximum size you need to hit is your best accuracy standard, whether it is deer or dirt-bags, it is a set up for failure at some point.


It was a comparison, an analogy. Maybe you can't understand this.
That you get bothered by the reality that we live in an increasingly violent world, and someone might be trained to deal with it and teach others to do so also, then use those real world shooting experiences to make a comparison, makes me wonder about you too. There is evil in the world,,,, sounds like you better have good running shoes.

I certainly know how to handle modern small arms of most types , its just I don't think it's appropriate on this forum .

 

[kyron4]

You obviously live in a different world to me when you even mention minute of bad guy etc .To even mention shooting people on a ML forum makes me wonder about you.
What I am talking about is not minute of anything , it is the size of a kill zone on your target animal and the ability to place a bullet in that zone and using the knowledge of and use of the shooting position needed to enable that shot to be taken with consideration of the distance to that target. This is to reduce the variable the shooter has the most control over , you can't change the light , wind , weather etc but you can go to your most stable position .
I will always go to the most stable firing position available before taking a shot and if the distance of the animal is too great for the position available I won't shoot .
Most people are very bad judges of distance , especially when deer hunting , modern range finders are sure thing to help with this problem .
I deer stalk on high mountain tussock land above the tree line , constantly glassing and moving , or in dense Southern Hemisphere rain forest , (for forest read jungle) also constantly moving and glassing . I usually shoot deer in the neck for instant kills and less
meat damage.
PS I shoot mainly Red deer and a paper dinner plate is about the size of the deers vital area ,
PPS I shoot mainly from prone which is why my ML deer rifle has an English type butt plate because crescent butt plates bite too much

I have to disagree with the picture, I have made many heart shots with different weapons at different distances, and none ran over 50 or 60 yards. Not saying they cant run 150+ yards but more the exception than the rule in my experience.

 

[Idaho Ron]

Some people are more composed, more studied, more practiced and more capable than others. Not talking down, just stating what is reality.

Those that are simply have a better time of it than others.

I have killed 23 head of elk. I have seen others take probably twice that many.
People fall apart in front of big game. I have seen guys that are proficient shooters that can't shoot an elk at 50 yards.
When I'm calling an elk in 1/2 the battle is keeping the shooter from falling apart.
The fact is few hunters kill game once a year. Many don't kill an animal for a few years.
I think hunters get themselves worked up and in trouble because they can't keep control over themselves in front of animals.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I have to disagree with the picture, I have made many heart shots with different weapons at different distances, and none ran over 50 or 60 yards. Not saying they cant run 150+ yards but more the exception than the rule in my experience.

I'm not sure what the guy hit her with but I bet he said I hit her in the boiler room.

 

[Graybeard2A]

The closer the better! (try for archery-type shots).

 

[dylan84]

I've killed a lot of deer, with every kind of hunting implement, and I don't think I've ever taken an offhand shot at one with a firearm. There's almost always "something" to use as a rest. And IMO, it's always better to use a rest.

I shoot muzzleloaders offhand frequently. I use the bench for load development, and sighting in. I'm confident in my offhand shooting. But when hunting, if there's a rest, even just a tree to lean against, I'm using it. Every time.

This last deer hunt I met a buck over the top of a hill face to face. No rest just a quick shot standing. There are no absolutes!

 

[Sparkitoff]

For fun, and at a bonefide range I did some of this. I know the balls trajectory and did not detect any wind. Sitting, kneeling I could hit a 10- inch circle many times out to 175 yards. At that point it became too hard to see under the sights. However, I have no business shooting at an animal at 175 yards with that same rifle.

Taking a shot on game is a combination of skill, accuracy, conditions and personal ethics. I have found this varies widely.

This exercise is fun for skill development and goal setting, but is not a measure or indicator of repeatable field capability.

One day I shoot at an antelope at 135- yards and another day I pass up an elk at 60.