How Reliable Are Muzzleloaders?

[Josh Smith]

Hi Gents,

I got to thinking about this.

After I got down the proper loading technique for my rifles, I've only had one misfire in a few hundred rounds. That was due to too much spit on a patch and not enough try patches.

It gunked up near the nipple.

Now, I've only been doing this a couple, few months.

Many of you have been doing this since before I was born.

I'm wondering how you would rate overall sidelock muzzleloader performance (cappers, flinters, even wheel- and matchlocks) to modern ammunition? I use modern ammunition as it's the baseline I know, and from the centerfire stuff, I don't remember ever having a misfire or hangfire.

I know they're different animals, but am wondering if reliability has really come as far in reliability as we sometimes think we have...

Josh

 

[necchi]

Just like "modern" guns if everything is proper funtioning clean and dry my ML's will fire 100% of the time.
If you have never had a mis-fire with rim or centerfire cartridges or guns, then you have done alot less shooting than I had previously thought.

 

[rabjr]

I'm a hunter first and foremost. If these guns were not reliable I'd never use them. I started shooting and hunting with caplocks in 83' and never experianced a misfire up to 2003 when I gave caplocks up for flintlocks. I've been a dedicated flintlock shooter/hunter sence 2004 and have not experianced a misfire while hunting in that time, even took two deer in the rain. The main thing with how reliable these guns are has to do with operator error. You dictate how reliable they are, if you do your part they are just fine but if you don't they will hiccup on you.

 

[David W.]

Let's face it. Muzzleloaders are open to the elements and precautions must be taken in order not to have a miss fire.

Modern center fire cartridges are closed to the environment. They can shoot in almost any weather. Percussion systems are vulnerable to moisture, flintlocks even more so. Having little sealed containers takes away the chalenge and is one of (but not the only) the reasons we love our smoke poles so much.

If we liked convenience, we would not be doing what we are doing. And yes, centerfire weapons miss fire too.

 

[hanshi]

The only way I can answer your question is to say that I've been hunting exclusively with flintlocks for several years, now, and with various muzzleloaders since the mid 1960s. I use them not only during primitive weapons season but during the general rifle season as well. I've never felt undergunned, or at any kind of disadvantage in all that time. Reliability in the woods has been 100% with all my ML guns since I fired my first shot. Honestly, I don't give reliability a second though because I've never experienced unreliability. Now, I did experiment with and OTC flinter once, and like many imported flinters, it was not reliable. I quickly converted it to percussion and it was a jewel.

 

[Josh Smith]

Thanks folks. Kinda' what I figured. I do keep my rifles sealed from the elements by way of keeping them loaded with a cotton over-the-powder wad and a lubed patch and ball. On the other end, a piece of lightly greased leather fits between the nipple and the hammer. This is one reason I stopped using the HotShot nipple on the New Englander: The holes in the side didn't allow a 100% seal. I have a Knight RedHot (Thanks, Necchi!) that I use on it for #11 caps, and a T/C musket nipple I use for musket caps. Both allow it to seal nicely.

If you have never had a mis-fire with rim or centerfire cartridges or guns, then you have done alot less shooting than I had previously thought.

Necchi, I have, but not from anything I'd expect to misfire. Just cheap stuff. I sent you a private topic outlining what I've found are near 100% reliable in my smokeless firearms.

I didn't expound on that here because it would have been an equally long treatise on smokeless ammunition, and I'd rather keep that off open board.

Suffice to say that I've had misfires and have shot a lot.

Josh

 

[Mattole]

I have had two misfires in the past two years with my Marlin 308mx while attempting to shoot new factory Hornady ammunition. These were not firing pin errors but rather ammunition errors - bad primers, I reckon.

My muzzleloader caplock now feels more reliable than my centerfire rifle. I know that if I do my part with my ml by making sure the pathway is clear from nipple to breech and by protecting the powder charge and the cap from inclement moisture, that gun will fire 100% of the time.

I cannot say the same about shooting factory centerfire ammunition in my smokeless pole, however..

 

[luieb45]

As long I did everything that I was supposed to do with my caplocks they're just as reliable as any other gun. I hunted several times in the rain this year and just flipped my orange vest over the lock when I carried and everything was fine. This is of course that the cap is snug on the nipple.

 

[tg]

I have found them quite reliable but someone must have had their doubts or reacted to problems that were likley self inflicted considering all the modernization of powders, primers and such to make them work so "much more better" lots of solutions to problems which never existed for the most part, basicaly a situation of those who don't know squat leading the pack, and making a fast buck.

 

[Josh Smith]

I have found them quite reliable but someone must have had their doubts or reacted to problems that were likley self inflicted considering all the modernization of powders, primers and such to make them work so "much more better" lots of solutions to problems which never existed for the most part, basicaly a situation of those who don't know squat leading the pack, and making a fast buck.

This is one of the main reasons I was wondering. I've never shot an inline and only held a couple, but it seems like they are more trouble than they're worth.

The other reason is that I've been hearing how unreliable old smokepoles were in terms of war, fighting &c... mostly from TV, granted. I just figure if they were that bad, then armies wouldn't have abandon the crossbow.

Josh

 

[wattlebuster]

Ive never Had a misfire while hunting but I have during shoots an every time it has been my fault so in my opinion they are as reliable as any modern gun IF I do my part :thumbsup:

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Guns are only as reliable as the owner pulling the trigger. Lots of things can go wrong with all guns. If i had to put them in order of reliability based on what can go wrong. Here's my list.

CF
Inline ML
Caplock
Flintlock

 

[Zonie]

Josh:
Notwithstanding everyone's claim that muzzleloaders are very reliable you know by now that they are not a match for more modern firearms.

To me, that is one of the many things about them that make them more interesting and more fun to shoot than modern firearms.
Kinda like fly fishing. Will a good fly rod always make a good roll cast? No. But when the fisherman does everything right with a good fly rod and the line lays gently on the water there is a great deal of satisfaction.
The same can be said when that flintlock or percussion gun fires and a accurate hit is made on the target.

As for their reliability in war time there were tens of thousands of solders who were killed by both flintlocks and percussion muzzleloaders.
Television and the movies seldom get things right and truth be known, they don't care.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

No fair!

I can't edit your post. :slap:

 

[hoochiepapa]

I hunted with and shot competition with cf's for 20-25 years. I reloaded for most of that time, also. THe only misfires I had were human error. To be specific, too much sizing lube or not cleaning the cases good enough after sizing, and the lube would get in the primer pocket.
Human error is the reason you will have misfires. That's the point of my rant. It caused misfires then, and probably will now. :surrender:

 

[ebiggs1]

I generally consider my flintlocks to be reliable. I can't remember the misfires they are so rare. The one and only shot I have had at a deer with my TC flintlock worked as it is supposed to. Fantastic!
However, shooting today, out in the backyard, 50 degrees, slight wind and full sunshine, I had three flashes in the pan straight in a row! Flintlocks are wonderful.

 

[Bill Hall]

I think the better Question should be, "How good are YOU at making a muzzleloader reliable?" With center fire arms, all the variables are taken care of for you. With muzzleloaders, we have to learn all those variable ourselves. Now, throw in the fouling nature of black powder, and the learning curve takes years to master, maybe even a lifetime (I'll let you know right before I die :rotf: ).

Muzzleoaders are what they are, and it's up to us, and the amount of effort we choose to put into learning, to make them reliable. Much more challenging and fun than shoving preloaded shells in the wrong end of a modern firearm. Bill

 

[lakota]

When I first started shooting cap locks I had many misfires and hangfires but when I switched from pyrodex to real blackpowder I never had another one.

I am still learning flintlock so I am having the occasional hangfire and the very rare misfire. I did have a misfire on friday...I forgot to prime the pan

I have had more failure to fires with rimfire ammo than I can remember. Also have had a few FTF's with factory 9mm ammo. I have had exactly 2 FTF's with my handloaded ammo. They tend to not want to fire when I forget to put powder in the case!

 

[AZSwampstomper]

I think that the guns are reliable. It's Mother Nature that will do you in if she can!!! :rotf:

 

[Jason Lewis]

Hi Gents,

I got to thinking about this.

After I got down the proper loading technique for my rifles, I've only had one misfire in a few hundred rounds. That was due to too much spit on a patch and not enough try patches.

It gunked up near the nipple.

Now, I've only been doing this a couple, few months.

Many of you have been doing this since before I was born.

I'm wondering how you would rate overall sidelock muzzleloader performance (cappers, flinters, even wheel- and matchlocks) to modern ammunition? I use modern ammunition as it's the baseline I know, and from the centerfire stuff, I don't remember ever having a misfire or hangfire.

I know they're different animals, but am wondering if reliability has really come as far in reliability as we sometimes think we have...

Josh

dude, i bird hunt with a flintlock and with an original sxs percussion. i've been shooting muzzleloaders since i was 9 or 6. i also shoot in long range competition and host my own midrange shoot. trust me, as long as i do my part, the guns are 100% reliable. make a mistake and they may tell you sooner or later. but, i'd bet my life on my guns in a heartbeat.