How to remove traditions breech plug

[coloradoclyde]

Has any body suggested he simply acquire a ball puller?

You just did. :thumbsup:
I just hope he doesn't try to pull a ball with an aluminum 3 piece rod.

 

[Zonie]

Debach

Below is what the inside of the breech looks like.



As you can see, removing the side drum is needed before the breech plug could be removed.

If you did this, trying to get things back together and all lined up would be a problem. This is why removing the breech plug is a last resort.

The first resort is to shoot the patched ball out.

You do this by removing the nipple (and the "clean out screw if it has one) and pouring some fresh powder down into the flame hole that the nipple (or clean out screw hole) connects to.
A paper clip will help to work the powder down into the area.

After this is done, replace the nipple (and clean out screw), cap the nipple and fire the gun in a safe direction.

If you loaded powder under the ball, it should fire unless you left a cleaning patch in the bore before loading the gun.
Even with a cleaning patch blocking off the powder load from the percussion cap, it probably will fire.

If you forgot to put the gunpowder into the barrel before ramming the ball, the powder you just put into the flame channel will be enough to send the ball a good 40 yards downrange so be careful where you aim it before pulling the trigger.

If this "shooting it out" method doesn't work (or you can't do it because you are not at the shooting range) go to your local auto parts store.

Buy a grease gun fitting called a zerk. You will want one with M6 X 1mm threads. If they don't have one, get whatever 6mm thread zerk they have.

You can either buy yourself a grease gun with a grease cartridge or take your prepared barrel to a shop that has a power grease gun.

To install the zerk, remove the nipple and screw it into the nipple hole USING FINGER PRESSURE ONLY.

Once installed, the grease can be pumped into the zerk. It will push out whatever is in the barrel.

Yes, cleaning the grease out is a PITA but at least the barrel will be unloaded.

Alternately, you can buy a ball screw from a place like Track of the Wolf or Dixie Gunworks

The screw will need to be screwed into the ball quite a long ways. A few turns isn't enough because the screw will just pull out of the ball.

If you use the ball screw method, be sure to pour about a teaspoon of water down the bore and let it sit for a few minutes before you try to remove the ball. This will help soften any fouling that might be in the bore and it will help to lubricate the patch to help it slide out of the barrel.

 

[M. De Land]

I've not removed a Traditions breech plug but looking at it I don't think it would give an experienced machinist much trouble to do so with the use of some heat and rapid cool down.
Both parts would need the threads dressed up and lubed before re-installation but I see nothing mechanically that would prevent it's being done. Mike D.

 

[coloradoclyde]

:hmm:

some heat and rapid cool down.

Gee! ever time I do that to metal it crystalizes
:td: advice in my opinion

 

[M. De Land]

Try heating to a straw color and cooling with WD- 40 spray can. It almost always works and will not ever cause any of the trouble you describe.
All your doing is breaking the compression lock with expansion and contraction. This requires very little heat comparatively speaking and will not effect even the finish.
I have used it many times over 33 years on all manor of gun work. Mike D.

 

[Billnpatti]

DO NOT TRY TO REMOVE THE BREACH PLUG. It is put in in such a way that if you try to unscrew anythign you will have a mess. The way to remove a stuck ball if you can't shoot it out is to use a CO2 thingy. If you don't have one of them and don't know anyone who does have one, you can take your nipple down to the local autoparts store and get a zerk (grease) fitting that has the same threads as your nipple. Put the zerk fitting in where your nipple was and then use a grease gun to push out the ball. Then just clean out the grease, replace your nipple and you are good to go.

 

[coloradoclyde]

That wasn’t my point.
My point was that even suggesting that one should attempt to remove a CVA/Traditions breech plug without exhausting every other possible means of getting a bullet out of the barrel ”¦. Is a FOOLS ERRAND. Period ! Especially to someone with no muzzle loading experience, or advanced machinist skills.

Now fess up you're just yanking my chain aren't ya? :grin:

 

[flintlockmdj]

763-633-2500 this is the phone # for Track Of The Wolf. Call them before 12:00 noon central time tomorrow and tell them what is wrong and that you need the tools to pull a ball. You need a stainless steal range rod, get a long one then if you get a long rifle later, "42" barrel" you already have the rod to clean it with. you will need a cleaning jag, ball puller and patch puller all of the appropriate caliber. I have been dealing with them for years and have found them to be good people to work with.

 

[bubba.50]

good luck to ya gettin' everything to line up exactly right when ya screw it back together. not sayin' it can't be done but if I was a bettin' man i'd bet ya end up with a bunch of useless parts & a barrel that'd basically be a blank.

my opinion & yer welcome to it.

 

[longcruise]

I have removed and replaced a drum on a traditions rifle and that part is no big deal. If I had to remove the breech plug, I'd witness mark it very carefully before removal and try to return to the same point. If a little off, I would retap for the drum to get a fit.

But I'n not advocating removal. In fact it is unlikely that the breech plug would ever need to be removed.

For our OP, just recognize that there are two different conversations going on here. One addresses the feasibility and advisability of removing the breech plug. The other addresses your actual problem which is merely a bore obstruction. Either a ball or patch or whatever. The how to to solve it is fully explained above.

 

[M. De Land]

You guys have really made me curious. I'll be looking for a well used low priced Traditions gun to buy just so I can take it apart to see how hard it really is. I might get surprised but I doubt it. :grin:

 

[coloradoclyde]

Great! let us know how it turns out (no pun intended)can I have the leftover parts? :grin:

 

[necchi]

so I can take it apart to see how hard it really is.

It's not about how hard it is, it's about trashing the cross-threaded high torqued threads of not only the plug but the barrel it'self.
And still having something left that might resemble some kind of safety factor when re-installed.
The steel they use, the torque technique, cross drilling/threading and bore indexing all tend to leave folks with parts that have damage so far done as to leave the possibility of a safe breech questionable at best.

No disrespect to anyone here,,
With the number barrels in question I have seen with pipe wrench and vice grip marks on them from attempts at removing these kinds of breech indicates to me that the average person that try's to do this isn't the kind of guy that understands the safety a proper breech plug provides. That alone is enough to refrain from any advice towards any kind of repair or disassembly that can be given on an open WWW forum.

Know what I mean? :idunno:

 

[M. De Land]

It must be remembered that they are repaired by some one for warranty work there for they can be repaired by other competent gun mechanics.
Granted a seemingly poor design but not impossible to work with.
There is no part in this breech system that any competent machinist could not make from scratch, heat treat properly if necessary and assemble with perfect safety.
I doubt very much if any new parts would need to be made though. Mike D.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Like any other mechanical man made item, a person could concievably take it back apart and repair it. Whether that person needs a doctorate degree in rocketry is another matter. Many tasks with muzzleloaders merely take patience, care and sometimes the right tool.

I have threaded barrels for breech plugs, cut dovetails, forged springs, unbreeched and breeched Thompson center barrels, carved stocks from tree trunks. I have even made a percussion lock from scratch. I would not even attempt to remove a CVA or traditions breech for anything short of cutting the barrel off at the breech to reuse for a different gun. A number of such barrels turn up on the auctions with the breech tabs/hooks twisted completely off by those who thought they new better.

An experienced master machinist can afford to take the chance. he can simply remake anything he destroys.

 

[Toomuch51]

so I can take it apart to see how hard it really is.

It's not about how hard it is, it's about trashing the cross-threaded high torqued threads of not only the plug but the barrel it'self.
And still having something left that might resemble some kind of safety factor when re-installed.
The steel they use, the torque technique, cross drilling/threading and bore indexing all tend to leave folks with parts that have damage so far done as to leave the possibility of a safe breech questionable at best.

No disrespect to anyone here,,
With the number barrels in question I have seen with pipe wrench and vice grip marks on them from attempts at removing these kinds of breech indicates to me that the average person that try's to do this isn't the kind of guy that understands the safety a proper breech plug provides. That alone is enough to refrain from any advice towards any kind of repair or disassembly that can be given on an open WWW forum.

Know what I mean? :idunno:

:bow: :v
C.V.A./Traditions breachplugs should only be removed by a competent gunsmith with knowledge/experience of this design.

Toomuch
..........
Shoot Flint

 

[necchi]

It must be remembered that they are repaired by some one for warranty work there for they can be repaired by other competent gun mechanics.

Yeah I hear ya,
Warranty work can and is done to the drum, I've never heard of any trouble with the plug.
Deer Creek Products is and has been CVA's warranty repair shop forever,, send them the barrel and they can replace, index and drill a new drum but if someone has messed with the breech plug it'self then it's history and time to buy a new barrel.
Such is the way in a 21st century litigious world.

 

[dbach]

Happy ending.

I removed the nipple, filled the bolster drum with 2fg black powder, replaced the nipple and added a percussion cap. Pulled down on a target at 35 yards and pulled the trigger. I'll admit I was a bit nervous. The gun went off sending the load and all is well. On top of that I was about a half inch high and right of bullseye.


I'm now shooting 60 grains of 2Fg black powder, rather than the 80 I started with, and my shoulder is much better. I think I'm going to enjoy shooting my new rifle. I'm hitting the inner diameter of a paper plate at 35 yards consistently. Next I'll go to the range and see what I can do at 50 yards, then 100.

Thanks to all that pitched in.

 

[bpd303]

:thumbsup:

Just remember that even if you forget the powder and "dry ball" you can get enough powder under the nipple to shoot it out. Just make sure the ball is seated all the way down.