Hunting Handgun

[Blizzard of '93]

just a bit off topic but both the ROA and the '58 Rem have enuff power for feral pig (good eating BTW) I took a young boar a bit over 100# w/my '58 'Buffalo' loaded with a Lee mold conical - drt pass thru shot from a ground blind impact base of skull/neck juncture and a larger sow a bit over 200# dressed out w/my ROA but I shot too far back as it was trotting past. still drilled both lung tips. it whirled and scrambled so fast that my nephew in the blind w/me could not get a shot off w/his H&R 20ga mag. left a blood trail after we lost it's tracks and found it piled up in thicket about 1/4 mile away. finished it w/another conical into the skull. those things are tough - that's why I had my nephew w/his 20ga along although he's not an experienced hunter he's a fair shot.
I also have a CVA Hawken .50 pistol that I forgot to clean after shooting one time and the bore rusted. I had it bored out and honed by a machinist friend so I can shoot shot and a patched .54 ball. I used to 'trek' sort of in the fall as close to PC as I could and I took a many a squack, rabbit and grouse with it. #4 shot does best. of course range is limited due to no choke.
you could hardly go wrong w/a large bore smoothy as a prb would deter any dangerous critter 4 or 2 legged.

 

[Billnpatti]

If hot loads are your desire, I'd sure look for a good used ROA. They can handle the hottest load of almost any handgun and they give you six shots instead of one. I think Old Gray Wolf (Joe Wolf) has one in excellent shape that he will sell you.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

There are muzzle loader pistols that put out much better ballistics than the ROA. Buddy has a Traditions pistol made from a cut down $100 traditions rifle. It will easily handle 80 grain loads behind a 50 cal ball.

Some of the modern design box lock percussion guns are rated or 90 grains of powder behind a 50 cal ball.

Now if some enterprising company would make a remmie repro with a stretched frame and cylinder that could hand;e 70 grains behind a 54 cal ball......

 

[M. De Land]

I don't believe any of them can burn that much ( 70 to 90 grains) powder in a 10inch barrel shooting a patched ball.
I use 50grains of 2F in my .54 I made from a heavy rifle barrel and feel it is about near the upper limit of what can be burned in the ten inch barrel using a patched round ball.
A conical would probably be able to burn more powder. MD

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I never mentioned limiting to a ten inch barrel.
In addition a box lock gun, with the nipple screwed into the breech, burns powder a bit more easily.

 

[M. De Land]

I used ten inches as about the max length used in most muzzle loading pistols I have seen and usually a bit shorter. MD

 

[nkbj]

There are muzzle loader pistols that put out much better ballistics than the ROA. Buddy has a Traditions pistol made from a cut down $100 traditions rifle. It will easily handle 80 grain loads behind a 50 cal ball.

Some of the modern design box lock percussion guns are rated or 90 grains of powder behind a 50 cal ball.

Now if some enterprising company would make a remmie repro with a stretched frame and cylinder that could hand;e 70 grains behind a 54 cal ball......

Once upon a time (1988 or 89) in Alabama, saw a "Remington" made by a machinist out of stainless with an extra long frame, cylinder and barrel, .410 caliber. It was beautiful. He wouldn't sell. I'd like to get a .36 Remington reamed and barrel rebored to shoot .41 conicals. It's on my to do list.

 

[RedFeather]

Guy at our revolving gun show had an 1855 Zoli horse pistol and I almost bought it. Basically a .58 Zouave in hand gun guise. Researched it here and read that it was hurtful to shoot with anything like heavy large charges. Say sixty grains. Passed on it. Wonder how a cut down rifle with medium rifle charges would handle? Might sprain the wrist some?

 

[zimmerstutzen]

My modern box lock percussion muzzle loader from Traditions has a 12 inch barrel. I think the comparable TC gun had a 12 as well. The 1855 Springfield pistols were that long and in 58 caliber.

A kentucky style in a heavy caliber gets too front heavy to hold with octagon barrels even ten inches long. Turn the 2/3s of the barrel round and shave some weight off and it gets better and a longer barrel can be used. Yes the typical traditional production guns stop at ten inches. But if the front heavy nature of the design can be overcome, there is no reason not to go to 12 or more.

 

[crockett]

Well you already have a ROA. That will put a flat nosed conical from nose to tail on some small hogs- you have to use ffffg and you need a ROA to handle it- you can pretty much get up to 44/40 levels.
But, if you want a Walker you want a Walker. You don't need to fire full loads at the target range and an occasional diet of heavy loads for hunting ought to be okay. I think until the 357 magnum was developed that old Walker was the most powerful revolver made. I'd like a revolver for hogs just in case I missed on my first shot.
On a single shot- a 54 ought to be better than a 50. There are some affordable kits from Deer Creek- I think they are left overs from CVA and the prices (last time I checked) weren't too high. These are the 95% already finished kits- you pretty much brown the steel and varnish the wood and are good to go.
I use a 54 caliber rifle but got a 50 caliber pistol and it is a bother to have to carry both sized ammo. If I had it to do over again I'd gone with 54 everything.

 

[Grumpa]

The original Walker's were made of iron, quite a few of them blew out chambers. The repros are made of steel. The reason Colt was able to make the .44 caliber Model 1860 (all steel) on the same sized frame as the .36 caliber Model 1851, (iron), was due to the invention of the Bessemer Furnace. The steel gun, at the same size, could withstand greater pressure than the iron gun.
I would not be afraid to fill the chambers full, compress the powder by seating the ball, and fire away. I have done so, with my Uberti .36 Navy. The only drawback was the force required to seat the ball. On the old guns, continuous use of such loads would eventually put enough strain on the pins to bend them, pulling the barrel away from the frame until it would point low. I don't know if this would happen on a modern, steel gun, but there is no real reason for a steady diet of such loads. But, you will not blow the gun.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I have an old Ideal mold which throws these bullets. They come out of the mold just a fraction over .456 and average 192 grains,,, pure lead. I load them backwards for hunting. Loaded nose up, they punch perfect round holes in the target. IIRC they were designed in Britain by an official of their National Pistol Association for target shooting with the 455 Webley,

 

[zimmerstutzen]

BTW, I have also loaded them in BPCR loads for the 45-70 and they are pretty good to 100 yards.

 

[jimhallam]

I have an old Ideal mold which throws these bullets. They come out of the mold just a fraction over .456 and average 192 grains,,, pure lead. I load them backwards for hunting. Loaded nose up, they punch perfect round holes in the target. IIRC they were designed in Britain by an official of their National Pistol Association for target shooting with the 455 Webley,

That bullet looks very much like the light "gallery load" bullet for the .45-70 Springfield (sorry, Zonie) .
The bullet that you refer to was the "Naval Target Bullet" developed by H.M.S. Excellent (the Royal Navy's school of gunnery on Whale Island, near Portsmouth --- as it was land-based it was referred to as a "Stone Frigate". It was developed from the issue Mk. III bullet --- hollow base AND hollow nose, Webley called it their "Manstopper", and the later Mk. IV which due to political correctness was flat-nosed. The Naval Target Bullet had a sharp edge to a slight ogive (roundness).
What YOU are refeering to was Richard Loweth getting a mould made by RCBS. He was a well-known dealer and competitive shooter at the NPA Meeting at Bisley in the (19)80s.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

That bullet looks very much like the light "gallery load" bullet for the .45-70 Springfield (sorry, Zonie) .
The bullet that you refer to was the "Naval Target Bullet" developed by H.M.S. Excellent (the Royal Navy's school of gunnery on Whale Island, near Portsmouth --- as it was land-based it was referred to as a "Stone Frigate". It was developed from the issue Mk. III bullet --- hollow base AND hollow nose, Webley called it their "Manstopper", and the later Mk. IV which due to political correctness was flat-nosed. The Naval Target Bullet had a sharp edge to a slight ogive (roundness).
What YOU are refeering to was Richard Loweth getting a mould made by RCBS. He was a well-known dealer and competitive shooter at the NPA Meeting at Bisley in the (19)80s.

My information about the development of that bullet came from the 1918 Lyman catalog, some 60 years before the 1980's. There was also a 38 caliber model of the same bullet. I bought the mold used sometime around 1980.

 

[Notchy Bob]

I want to add a handgun for hunting on my list of needs...

I would consider a Dragoon, but my Old Army can duplicate what this can do at a lesser weight and better sights.

So are there any other options besides a Walker?

David Clements, of Clements Custom Guns, used to offer a 5-shot .50 caliber conversion on the customer's stainless Ruger Old Army (ROA) revolver, although I think the actual bore diameter (groove to groove) was .485". Clements designed this conversion to handle the industry-standard .490" round balls, but better accuracy and performance was obtained with a special .488" conical bullet from Mount Baldy. This revolver was a beast:

Note the custom octagonal barrel.

In the next photo, you can see the enlarged cutout under the loading lever for the Mount Baldy bullet:

The next picture compares the custom five-chambered .50 caliber cylinder to the OEM .45 caliber cylinder with six chambers:

You can read the full write-up on Jeff Quinn's Gunblast website: A Fifty-Caliber Percussion Revolver

This conversion was well out of your specified price range, but if you wanted a super accurate, super powered black-powder revolver, this would have been your huckleberry. I'm using the past tense because I don't think David does these any more. You could contact him and ask. There are still a few ROAs out there, for people who want them.

I hope you find what you're looking for.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[rodwha]

David Clements, of Clements Custom Guns, used to offer a 5-shot .50 caliber conversion on the customer's stainless Ruger Old Army (ROA) revolver, although I think the actual bore diameter (groove to groove) was .485". Clements designed this conversion to handle the industry-standard .490" round balls, but better accuracy and performance was obtained with a special .488" conical bullet from Mount Baldy. This revolver was a beast:

View attachment 56616

Note the custom octagonal barrel.

In the next photo, you can see the enlarged cutout under the loading lever for the Mount Baldy bullet:



View attachment 56617

The next picture compares the custom five-chambered .50 caliber cylinder to the OEM .45 caliber cylinder with six chambers:

View attachment 56618

You can read the full write-up on Jeff Quinn's Gunblast website: A Fifty-Caliber Percussion Revolver

This conversion was well out of your specified price range, but if you wanted a super accurate, super powered black-powder revolver, this would have been your huckleberry. I'm using the past tense because I don't think David does these any more. You could contact him and ask. There are still a few ROAs out there, for people who want them.

I hope you find what you're looking for.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

If only they weren’t over $1200 and you supply the gun... I’m not even sure I’d do it if I could just toss that kind of cash around like it was nothing. Maybe if it were truly a .50 cal. but even still that’s a bit steep. And for much less I could get a Howdah so...

 

[M. De Land]

If only they weren’t over $1200 and you supply the gun... I’m not even sure I’d do it if I could just toss that kind of cash around like it was nothing. Maybe if it were truly a .50 cal. but even still that’s a bit steep. And for much less I could get a Howdah so...

I think it's a great looking gun and considering the work to alter it probably a fair price. I think the diameter idea was to be able to use the same commercially available ball size (close enough to cut lead at loading) that is used with a cloth patch in rifles.

 

[Bad Karma]

Huh...

I think it's a great looking gun and considering the work to alter it probably a fair price. I think the diameter idea was to be able to use the same commercially available ball size (close enough to cut lead at loading) that is used with a cloth patch in rifles.

I’ve thought about having one reamed to .470” in the chambers and asking Mr. Hoyt if he would ream the bore to .465” with 1 in 16 rifling .004” deep. I believe there would be sufficient meat in the cylinder for a safe six shooter. Accurate Molds could supply a mold dropping a slightly heeled bullet at .468” and 260 grains or so.

 

[M. De Land]

I suppose I'll just end finding out for myself.
I wonder if it has anything to do with the manufacturer of the Walker. Or maybe the time in which it was made (older/newer).
No doubt one's stout load of standard Goex isn't really comparable to the same load of Swiss also.

Wedges aren't hard to make and heat treat. Couple hour job with a good file and hack saw. O-1 would be a good alloy choice although I prefer A-2 but this alloy needs a good furnace to heat treat well. O-1 is easier.