I’m in too deep auction buy…..

[Notchy Bob]

Just to follow up on post #17:

The only printed Dixie Gun Works catalog I have on hand is #160, from the year 2011. On page 634 is a chart which shows bore sizes (land to land) and recommended ball sizes for reproduction guns. They list the Hopkins & Allen .45 caliber rifle (which used a Numrich barrel) and show a bore size of .443", with a recommended ball size of .435". I don't see groove depth shown, but I'm certain that these barrels were intended for patched round balls.

Buffalo Bullets used to make swaged round balls in .435", but these may be hard to find now. Most shooters are happy with a ball .010" under bore size, which would be .433". To satisfy my own curiosity, I looked around a bit and found both Hornady and Speer make swaged round balls in the .433" size, and Lee does still offer a .433" mould. Track of the Wolf currently has this mould and .433" cast and swaged round balls in stock.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[MedicMike3762]

i think the box stores sell both hard and softwood dowels. choose wisely

Just to follow up on post #17:

The only printed Dixie Gun Works catalog I have on hand is #160, from the year 2011. On page 634 is a chart which shows bore sizes (land to land) and recommended ball sizes for reproduction guns. They list the Hopkins & Allen .45 caliber rifle (which used a Numrich barrel) and show a bore size of .443", with a recommended ball size of .435". I don't see groove depth shown, but I'm certain that these barrels were intended for patched round balls.

Buffalo Bullets used to make swaged round balls in .435", but these may be hard to find now. Most shooters are happy with a ball .010" under bore size, which would be .433". To satisfy my own curiosity, I looked around a bit and found both Hornady and Speer make swaged round balls in the .433" size, and Lee does still offer a .433" mould. Track of the Wolf currently has this mould and .433" cast and swaged round balls in stock.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

Wow, great information and thank you for the follow up! I will be on the scout for some .433 balls! Thanks again.

Mike

 

[swamperk]

i went to a sportsman show in louisiana and all the prices are crazy,,,i have 338 shells i bought for $25 a box, at the show they were $130 a box, the man ask me how many boxes do i want,,lol i not going to say what i told him

 

[rickystl]

I've followed (and purchased) from the auctions for many years now. What I've noticed in just the last 3 years or so is the often high prices muzzle loaders are bringing. It seems pricing is 2-3 times what it was just 5 years ago. However, "occasionally", like the OP you can snatch a bargain. But when bidding, keep in mind what the buyer's premium is plus packaging and shipping/insurance. What bidders sometimes call the "juice". LOL It can easily add up to an additional 40% for long guns.

Rick

 

[Kansas Jake]

Rick makes a great point. Buyer’s premiums vary with the auction. Also in some states a consignment auction is subject to sales tax whereas an individual estate sale may not be. So the add ons can vary from zero to 20%-30% or more. It can be a shock to buy a $600 gun for $500 at the auction and find out you $700 at settlement.

 

[MedicMike3762]

I agree with both Jake and Rick, however this auction was a local auction no internet shenanigans! It seems muzzle loaders here in my local can be had a bit cheaper than other places.

Mike

 

[rickystl]

I agree with both Jake and Rick, however this auction was a local auction no internet shenanigans! It seems muzzle loaders here in my local can be had a bit cheaper than other places.

Mike

Good point Mike. In times past, local auctions were, well, pretty much local. It would draw potential buyers, looking at a printed list from maybe less than a 100 mile radius. But with the advent of the Internet, and advances in photography, that local auction list - now with high quality colored photos - can attract potential buyers from all over the U.S. (and beyond). So where you use to have maybe 2-3 bidders, you now have 10-15 bidders. So the pricing eventually keeps going up.
On the other hand, the Internet offers interested buyers a vastly larger selection in the second hand market, including muzzle loaders.

Rick

 

[Kansas Jake]

I still go to auctions but I figure in the end cost of the purchase into my bid.

 

[MedicMike3762]

That’s the key, calculate the cost of everything buyers premium etc and base your max bid accordingly.

Here however, most of the local auctions won’t even publish the black powder stuff and it’s always like a surprise at the end of the auction and by that point most of the bidders are out of money from bidding wars over guns you can buy cheaper new , have no interest in “fire place” guns or have already left. For example the above rifle wasn’t mentioned in the printed flyer that was sent out. Not that it’s some amazing custom gun but you get what I’m saying.

 

[William O.]

app hunter bet me to it...a hole in your hand is not a good deal.

Ibid. Ramin wood is not to be trusted! I used those dowels for years and didn't understand runout or the need for ramrods to be split out and then shaped. Until my short starter failed under pressure! Even though I didn't impale my hand the cut was sufficiently painful enough to motivate me the switch everything in my gear to hickory or brass.

 

[Stantheman86]

Looks like a Tryon rifle. I have the Pedersoli version I have yet to fire

 

[waarp8nt]

A local gun auction accepts online bids at a 15% buyers premium. If you bid / buy in person the day of auction there are no premiums. One time I wasn't going to be able to make the auction, so I bid online. Plans changed and I was able to go to the auction so I outbid my online bids. I'd pay the next $5 bid to outbid my online bid and save $30 to $90 in premium on each purchase. I had bid on several and ended up winning 4 that day, Thompson Center 25th Anniversary Hawken, a Hatfield and others.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Boy howdy... This is auction business is waaaay too complicated for my simple mind!

I do enjoy visiting the auction sites online and just viewing what they have for sale, though. You sometimes see things of great historical significance or artistic merit.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Snake Pleskin]

I am looking to have a reputable "auction" house come and sell some of my collection, but it is very frustrating. Most want a minimum of 15-20% and there is no guarantee you'll get the price you want, so if you demand a reserve, they "charge" you more. So, you have a firearm that you have realistically $250 into. It must sell for a min of $320 to break even ! Great! So , everyone out there always looking for the "bargains" guess what, not happening!

 

[Jason60chev]

Several months ago, I was wanting a "carbine" / Shortened musket. I looked around at what was available....the Indian guns and other vendors. First of all, NO ONE had anything in stock. I asked a gun smith acquaintance and he suggested seeking an older Japan made musket to do the project and that he would be able to do it. Through Proxibid, I found an older Japan made / Dixie Gun Works marked 1766 Charleville, that had seen use. You would think repro muskets would be fairly available, but I found hardly any. I sat at my computer through the live auction.....each lot only took about 30 seconds, but they were at it for hours! I had placed a max bid, before the live auction and when my lot came up, my auto bid only kicked in once. 25 seconds and it was all over. It took another couple of weeks, plus before they received my payment and shipped the gun. Anyway, I paid more than what I had expected, but I got what i wanted out of the project.

Pics = Original repro 1766 Charleville musket
Completed shortened musket to 31" barrel length

Needless to say.....with the cost of the musket, through the auction and paying the gun smith for the work....I am into this thing for a pretty good amount.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

Several months ago, I was wanting a "carbine" / Shortened musket. I looked around at what was available....the Indian guns and other vendors. First of all, NO ONE had anything in stock. I asked a gun smith acquaintance and he suggested seeking an older Japan made musket to do the project and that he would be able to do it. Through Proxibid, I found an older Japan made / Dixie Gun Works marked 1766 Charleville, that had seen use. You would think repro muskets would be fairly available, but I found hardly any. I sat at my computer through the live auction.....each lot only took about 30 seconds, but they were at it for hours! I had placed a max bid, before the live auction and when my lot came up, my auto bid only kicked in once. 25 seconds and it was all over. It took another couple of weeks, plus before they received my payment and shipped the gun. Anyway, I paid more than what I had expected, but I got what i wanted out of the project.

Pics = Original repro 1766 Charleville musket
Completed shortened musket to 31" barrel length

Needless to say.....with the cost of the musket, through the auction and paying the gun smith for the work....I am into this thing for a pretty good amount.

My problem exactly. I have several firearms' I would love to have some work done on, but the prices for a "good" gunsmith are through the roof many times costing more than the firearm, and the chance of every recovering that money, not very high!

 

[Jason60chev]

My problem exactly. I have several firearms' I would love to have some work done on, but the prices for a "good" gunsmith are through the roof many times costing more than the firearm, and the chance of every recovering that money, not very high!

I don't think one can ever recover any work paid that went into a gun. it can really, kinda only be valued as if it came that way from the maker. Same goes with cars, too, I think.

If it is worth anything, here is the gun smith, in New York, who did the work on my Charleville. I found him, back in January, when I needed a top jaw and a screw for the Charleville pistol I bought. I had the auction house ship the musket to him, directly. it is currently enroute to me, in Florida. He cut the barrel and stock down. Said that the forward end of the stock had split, so no problem. Remounted the front band, shortened ran rod, cleaned the metal and serviced the lock and also cleaned up the stock. I bought a number of accessories that I will need, anyway, from him, while I was there. Am sure he appreciated the residual sales.

https://ackermannarms.com/

 

[BP Addict]

The local auctions I've been to were just insane. I've seen guns of all types going for up to 3x more than new retail price and this isn't a recent thing either.

I think that companies are still playing catch up. One of the big online sellers is out of stock on many items.

I saw a used Lyman Deer Stalker Flintlock rifle go for $610 on Gun Broker. That's almost the price of a new one!

Walt

 

[BP Addict]

Interesting short, false muzzle.

LD

It looks more like a coned muzzle so you can load your ball without a short starter. I believe a "false" muzzle is straighter and has more depth. Thompson Center put them on their guns before S&W bought them out. They called it the Quick Load Accurizer (QLA) system.

I have something like that on my 40-caliber English Pistol. I don't really like it. I'd rather have one coned. I have to use extra-large patches to keep the ball centered while loading.

Walt

 

[rickystl]

It can be tough buying from auctions. As mentioned above, some of the commercially manufactured muzzle loaders sell for near their cost new. Often bidding "frenzy" causes this.
I've seen buyers premiums as high as 28%. 23% seems to be the norm in U.S. auctions today. Some of the European auctions have 18% BP's. But they also have an assortment of VAT and other government mandated taxes/fees. Plus, trying to get even an original muzzle loader shipped from some European countries can be a gut-wrenching, wallet draining experience.

On the other hand, aging collectors, with very large collections, may opt for using an auction to sell most of their collection. In many cases this would be preferable to selling each gun individually with all the packing, boxing, shipping, etc. for each gun.

Rick