India Barrel Failure

[FlinterNick]

More information to come after article in cap and ball

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

It appears this is true, then I will say that in well over 30 years of documenting MZL barrels blowing up, this is the first occurrence of an Indian barrel blowing up due to a failure of the barrel steel itself.

 

[Commodore Swab]

It appears this is true, then I will say that in well over 30 years of documenting MZL barrels blowing up, this is the first occurrence of an Indian barrel blowing up due to a failure of the barrel steel itself.

Same here. Looking at tens of thousands sold that would make the failure rate 1 in 10,000, 20,000? Looking at the damage though I tend to still be skeptical. I have seen a similar failure of an india gun. However the owner admitted he had tried pounding in an oversize ball with a hammer only to get it about an inch down. He then proceeded to attempt to shoot it out splitting the barrel. Very similar in appearance to what is shown here.

I wonder why shot was used instead of a ball.

 

[Commodore Swab]

FYI india barrels are stamped on the bottom hidden in the stock. These stamping will identify the manufacturer ect.

 

[jd945043]

I agree they used something besides Black in that barrel.Just like a Geiger counter at Los Alamos test grounds My BS meter is off the charts

 

[TFoley]

I agree they used something besides Black in that barrel.Just like a Geiger counter at Los Alamos test grounds My BS meter is off the charts

In that case, Sir, you might care to write to the director of the Hungarian National Proof House with your concerns that you believe that you have been misled, and request a true account of the proceedings.

Here is the address -

Polgári Kézilőfegyver és Lőszervizsgáló Kft. Gyöngysor u. 6., Budapest, HUNGARY, H-1031 Telephone: +36 1 347-6030 Fax: +36 1 347-6039 Email: [email protected]

 

[jd945043]

Gentlemen the proof house in Hungary is a Government office for the state.(If it's not I would be surprised). What government office tells the truth All the time. Hell our government officials are still telling us that Joe Biden got 81 million votes and we have seen that is a catastrophic failure. Just saying that barrel looked pretty damn clean for having a Black Powder load in it

 

[FlinterNick]

Gentlemen the proof house in Hungary is a Government office for the state.(If it's not I would be surprised). What government office tells the truth All the time. Hell our government officials are still telling us that Joe Biden got 81 million votes and we have seen that is a catastrophic failure. Just saying that barrel looked pretty damn clean for having a Black Powder load in it

What exactly would the Hungarian government gain from misleading the public on an official proof test? They have no stake in any argument between those who think Indian barrels are safe and those that are not, that is not their debate.

What is the financial gain in a fake proof test?

And why would the Hungarian government attempt to delegitimize the CIP proofing process by using a smokeless powder. That would literally disrupt and destroy all gun imports into Hungary until it was resolved by a court.

As for the visual effect, they obviously cleaned the barrel to examine the extent of the damage. They didn’t just blow up the barrel to be used as an exhibit in this argument, they were doing their job.

They stated in the article what kind of powder they used and it was backed up the official testimony of a very well respected black powder aficionado. Perhaps you should contact Balaszas and ask him if his article is fake or better yet contact the Hungarian government and file a complaint.

In an election there is motivation to cheat, because the cheater wants to get elected.

What exactly is the motivation for any government to lie about a proof test? Hungary already has some of the strictest gun modern laws and regulations of any nation in Europe.

 

[Frontstuffer070]

Ok, okay, An Indian made barrel burst. Ya'll can stop foaming at the mouth over it now. Some of you could not wait until something like this happened so you would have further substance to validate your gun snobbery! Excrement happens, Indian made Muskets fill a niche no one else is. A bad barrel got through and it failed testing.

 

[Commodore Swab]

"This was a .62 caliber smooth bore flintlock pistol made by R.A. in India, probably Daipur. There is no available information on who is “R.A”, whether it is a company, an individual. The standard caliber and bore-specific proofing charge was used set by the technical annex of the C.I.P. regulations for proofing black powder arms: 10 g (154 grain) of 4Fg Swiss No. 1. black powder and 55 g (849 grain) of lead shot. Powder was topped with 20 mm felt wad, shot was held in place with 10 mm felt wad. This proof charge would have allowed a maximum service charge of 5 g (77 grain) black powder and 25 g (385 grain) projectile. The pistol barrel burst upon the first proofing shot, therefore it was rejected of course."
As this is the explanation for the test there are some questions. . .

As a proof house maintaining standards why was the load for a .45 used not a .62?

Is it normal to proof using shot instead of ball when proofing a piece designed to fire a ball not shot, why?

The information on the bottom of the barrel identifies the maker, why are you guessing at this information?

If the markings/numbering are absent from the barrel then how can this be used to represent other manufactures? That would be like taking a home built cannon, blowing it up then using it as an example to demonstrate Hern or Southbend made dangerous cannons as they come from the same country.

This could be a barrel that was discarded and person unknown in India put it together and sold it. It is important when buying any gun to buy from a reputable source. As the source of this barrel is not identified and there is much competition there I see this as nothing more than an attempt to slander reputable sources that have been selling thousands problem free (barrel safety).

 

[Commodore Swab]

A bad barrel got through and it failed testing.

Did it?

With so many manufacturers there it could have come from a builder who doesn't supply any of the main importers for good reason. Every so often there will be someone new offering Indian built guns. The most relevant part is which company in India built this barrel is vague at best.

 

[FlinterNick]

Ok, okay, An Indian made barrel burst. Ya'll can stop foaming at the mouth over it now. Some of you could not wait until something like this happened so you would have further substance to validate your gun snobbery! Excrement happens, Indian made Muskets fill a niche no one else is. A bad barrel got through and it failed testing.

Agree, a bad barrel got through and it’s just a statistic. The writer of the article suggests that some things could be improved from the exporter like offering transparency of how their products are made, what standards are used, and what materials are used. The goal is increase quality not to digress it. We all want Indian gun makers to continue to fill a void for enthusiasts, but I think many of us agree that it could be done much better.

 

[Commodore Swab]

What exactly would the Hungarian government gain from misleading the public on an official proof test?

What is the financial gain in a fake proof test?

And why would the Hungarian government attempt to delegitimize the CIP proofing process by using a smokeless powder.

What exactly is the motivation for any government to lie about a proof test? Hungary already has some of the strictest gun modern laws and regulations of any nation. . .

let's see if I can answer your questions.

Well as a government (you answer this yourself later) with strict gun laws showing these are unsafe gives a clear path to stop the import and use. This eliminates what could be a source for accessible firearms.

As far as financial gain, they are paid regardless so I'm not sure what you are asking.

It could have been an innocent mistake but one that must be covered up as it could destroy the proof houses reputation

What is the motivation, simple restrict guns in the hands of the population.

If people in DC "could" show a gun is dangerous to the user and ban it do you think they would or would not do it? Looking at this test scientifically we should be able to reproduce it. Truth is we can't because we don't know the manufacture.

 

[8Ball]

Is there is an American company that would made such cheaps barrels? The answer is NO. Lawsuits would lead them to bankruptcy and criminal charges...

 

[jd945043]

What exactly would the Hungarian government gain from misleading the public on an official proof test? They have no stake in any argument between those who think Indian barrels are safe and those that are not, that is not their debate.

What is the financial gain in a fake proof test?

And why would the Hungarian government attempt to delegitimize the CIP proofing process by using a smokeless powder. That would literally disrupt and destroy all gun imports into Hungary until it was resolved by a court.

As for the visual effect, they obviously cleaned the barrel to examine the extent of the damage. They didn’t just blow up the barrel to be used as an exhibit in this argument, they were doing their job.

They stated in the article what kind of powder they used and it was backed up the official testimony of a very well respected black powder aficionado. Perhaps you should contact Balaszas and ask him if his article is fake or better yet contact the Hungarian government and file a complaint.

In an election there is motivation to cheat, because the cheater wants to get elected.

What exactly is the motivation for any government to lie about a proof test? Hungary already has some of the strictest gun modern laws and regulations of any nation in Europe.

Have fun in Never Never land where everyone is completely innocent and happy. If they wanted to show any proof then they would have posted before and after pictures that there was fouling. The fact that smokeless would look like the residue in that barrel. Grow up any political officers will lie in order to get the required results of disarmament of a population..

 

[waksupi]

Some here are just defending their choice of buying firearms of questionable quality. To hell with their own, or other's standing near, safety.

 

[Commodore Swab]

Is there is an American company that would made such cheaps barrels? The answer is NO. Lawsuits would lead them to bankruptcy and criminal charges...

The same can be said for india companies whis is why it is important to know what company made it.

 

[FlinterNick]

Have fun in Never Never land where everyone is completely innocent and happy. If they wanted to show any proof then they would have posted before and after pictures that there was fouling. The fact that smokeless would look like the residue in that barrel. Grow up any political officers will lie in order to get the required results of disarmament of a population..

Hungary already has some of the strictest gun laws in Europe, we’re talking about a tiny Central European nation that is heavily subject to the laws of its surrounding neighbors that participate in the EU… not the United Stats. You have no fear of being disarmed in the USA, but in neverland you may find pixie dust to be more effective.

 

[8Ball]

The same can be said for india companies whis is why it is important to know what company made it.

Pursuing an India company? Good luck...

 

[8Ball]

Here's how they proof older barrels in Hungary for legal hunting. If the proof fail there will be many $$$ down the drain...