This subject may have been brought up already but we have a special BP season in wisconsin. I see very, and I mean very, few hunters use traditional percussion or flintlocks. Most have the modern inlines with the sabot bullets and low power scopes(nothing over x1 power can be used for bp hunting in Wisc.). Am I alone in believing thses should be legal for use during the reg firearm season only? Nothing matches the charm of a deer at 30 yards away and you shoot and get a misfire. God, life is great!! I have heard seasoned archers complain that bowhunters are using to many modern gadjets. But even with the latest sighting system or overdraw a bow is still a 30 yard max range tool. I would support a law like that of Penn. regarding muzzleloading hunting seasons. Comments??
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inlines regulated to regular deer season
- Thread starter leadball
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All this could be avoided if the states have an in-line only season, leaving the primitive hunters to do what they do best...
I got flak from the regular gun season shooters because I would still use my muskets...
They can't please everyone...
I got flak from the regular gun season shooters because I would still use my muskets...
They can't please everyone...
Same in Rhode Island.
It's called "Black Powder Season" here, not "Primative Arms Season". We're getting flack about how to control the range as this is a rather crowded state in most areas and a stray can cover some serious "residentials" (we don't have a rifle season - Shotgun only).
Being a "Traditional" bowhunter for many years, I know exactly what you mean about the 300+ fps solos, carbons, and lasers.
However-
This IS the land of the "Free" (?). There are already too many limitations in place just to applease certain "minorities" that I'm usually automaticly against restrictions in general. This is one of them "to each his own" areas. Everyone starts somewhere,,, then the "light" comes on. Who knows, maybe eventually everyone will go with the spear and club again?
Seems like the more industry tries to shove us ahead, the more folks resist by grabbing onto the past.
It's called "Black Powder Season" here, not "Primative Arms Season". We're getting flack about how to control the range as this is a rather crowded state in most areas and a stray can cover some serious "residentials" (we don't have a rifle season - Shotgun only).
Being a "Traditional" bowhunter for many years, I know exactly what you mean about the 300+ fps solos, carbons, and lasers.
However-
This IS the land of the "Free" (?). There are already too many limitations in place just to applease certain "minorities" that I'm usually automaticly against restrictions in general. This is one of them "to each his own" areas. Everyone starts somewhere,,, then the "light" comes on. Who knows, maybe eventually everyone will go with the spear and club again?
Seems like the more industry tries to shove us ahead, the more folks resist by grabbing onto the past.
Guest
Why should inlines be used in rifle/shotgun season? Outside of sounding like you're displeased, what other reasons do you have?
Did you know that inlines (Rolling Block) trace back to the flintlock days? Did you know that a poster on[url] Huntamerica.com[/url] shot & retrieved a whitetail at 226 yards with his 45 cal Kentucky/Plains-type rifle using 120 grains FFF Goex, .490 roundball and a pre-lubed .010 patch?
As far as I'm concerned, all BP/ML shooters need to hang together... not apart. None of us should take sides on what front-loader rifle-style is best & how-why-when-where we should hunt with these weapons. This is the greatest of all shooting sports (in my opnion). Every other rimfire, centerfire and shotgun-type is just too plain boring unless their use involves areas that BP/MLs cannot go.
Did you know that inlines (Rolling Block) trace back to the flintlock days? Did you know that a poster on[url] Huntamerica.com[/url] shot & retrieved a whitetail at 226 yards with his 45 cal Kentucky/Plains-type rifle using 120 grains FFF Goex, .490 roundball and a pre-lubed .010 patch?
As far as I'm concerned, all BP/ML shooters need to hang together... not apart. None of us should take sides on what front-loader rifle-style is best & how-why-when-where we should hunt with these weapons. This is the greatest of all shooting sports (in my opnion). Every other rimfire, centerfire and shotgun-type is just too plain boring unless their use involves areas that BP/MLs cannot go.
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Guest
In most states thet have "muzzleloader seasons", the inline muzzleloader was developed AFTER a muzzleloader season was already "in place".
Kind'a figgers thet the inline muzzleloader was a "minority" back then and got things changed from the season's "original intent".
If "terms" mean anythin,.... then nuthin but real blackpowder should be legal in a "blackpowder season".
Primitive muzzleloader seasons never did have anythin to do with spears or clubs. In fact, I'm not aware of any states call'n ther muzzleloader season a "primitive muzzleloader season", because such a desciption was completely unnessasary before the developement of "modern inlines". ONLY after the introduction of the modern inlines did some states refer to ther muzzleloader season as "primitive".
The "johnny-come-lately" inlines have been lobby'n for constant change in muzzleloader "regs" each time ther is a new-developement in technology, yet "they" are the very ones tell'n the traditional hunters to quit whine'n and to accept the "changes" with a smile. (I GUESS SOME OF US OLD-TIMERS, JEST DON'T LIKE BE'N TOLD "WHAT TO ACCEPT" BY THE "LATE ARRIVALS"!! :curse
Some of us folks thet actually lobbyed our DoFG for a "muzzleloader season" back in the early to mid-70's, fail to see the fairness in such changes and think thet the inlines should either be included with the regular season, OR,.. have a season of "ther own", 'stead'a mess'n up the "efforts" of those thet came before them.
Call me "racial" if you want,.... but,.... I have always considered "MODERN INLINES" to be nuthin but MODIFIED CENTERFIRES!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif ::
Guest
As a collector and "student" of the Rolling-Block "action", I'd be very innerested in one of them rolling blocks thet date back to the "Golden Age"!! :: :: :winking: :bull:
The claim of a "226 yard roundball deer-kill" ain't any "easyer on the ear", then the claim of "450-500 yard elk-kill" with a particular Ultimate inline muzzleloader!!
For the inliner's who restrict ther shots to 200-250 yards,.... thet's still "twice" the distance I restrict myself to with the roundball. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
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Guest
Do you mean "other reasons" besides,.....
1. Modern jacketed bullets
2. Scopes
3. Smokeless powder
4. "Water-proof" inclosed breechs
5. 209 Shotgun primers
...... and etc??
The fact thet they STILL load from the muzzle, is become'n a rather "muted point",.... when compared to "OTHER" single-shot centerfires!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif :: /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
"What'a'ya think"?? ::
Call me "racial" if you want,.... but,.... I have always considered "MODERN INLINES" to be nuthin but MODIFIED CENTERFIRES!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif ::
Amen to that. I got some flack when I posted on another forum that I had beat CVA, T/C and others to the punch by 25 years when I competed in a match with a .303 SMLE, loaded from the front on top of a primed cartridge. Also, like today's inlines, got a lot of keyholes.
The original point of ML season's was to enable primitive shooters (who, like archers, handicap themselves) a chance to hunt without needing to look over their shoulders for a mob of city slickers blasting away at noises, motion and silhouettes of deer on the distant horizon. I hunted once with a left handed guy carrying a right handed Mossberg bolt action 12 ga who managed to blow off a box (25 in those days) and a half of shells before the first hour of season had passed.
It would be wise of conservation depts. to require new licensees get at least one deer with a ML before allowing them to carry a CF rifle (or inline) which will carry considerably longer distance than a RB. Maybe some of these hunting accidents would be prevented if these idiots had to learn about taking the time to place their shot carefully instead of knowing they had a gas cylinder standing by with 4 more rounds in the mag to send up the south end of a bounding target. Maybe in that time they'd have some time to think about what is behind their target.
Inlines were designed to get around the conservation laws and sell guns to the smokeless market. Hunting laws specifying "primitive" rather than "black powder" would be approriate. Three cheers for Musketman for carrying a Brown Bess when everyone else is carrying a 30/30 and boooo to anyone who didn't like it.
Rolling blocks in the flintlock era? No, not in that era, but there was probably a mountain man or two left carrying a flintlock Hawken.
Guest
Very well stated!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
As I've said before, this forum is for any and all questions about muzzleloading, and this question certainly is that.
The problem is questions on this issue are like questions on Religion. No one ever convinces anyone that they are right, and everyone ends up really upset. Hopefully, not too many people will start pounding one another on the head with their particular book while trying to convert the others to their way of thinking. More hopefully, no one will get really POed.
Now, to get off my soap box, climb up on another one and throw in my 1 1/2 cents worth.
As an official Old Fart, I can say that when the concept of a Muzzleloading season first came up and was accepted by the G&F departments it was with the understanding that the very nature of the weapon limited its game taking abilities. This was true due to the fact that it was a single shot weapon which takes significient time to reload and its range was limited.
The last of these is really the only thing that has changed, this being: the weapons effective range.
It seems to me that shape of the projectile, the location of the ignition or a guns ability to deliver large amounts of energy at great distances becomes a mute point if the aiming system is standardized at the lowest common (accurate) level.
Said another way, if ALL firearms used in a Muzzleloader season were required to use Iron Sights Only, most true 'hunters' would self impose a range of about 130 yards max on themselves because they understand that is about the limits of an iron sighting system under hunting conditions.
One thing is for certain about Muzzleloading Season rules: Everyone will never agree on this issue.
The problem is questions on this issue are like questions on Religion. No one ever convinces anyone that they are right, and everyone ends up really upset. Hopefully, not too many people will start pounding one another on the head with their particular book while trying to convert the others to their way of thinking. More hopefully, no one will get really POed.
Now, to get off my soap box, climb up on another one and throw in my 1 1/2 cents worth.
As an official Old Fart, I can say that when the concept of a Muzzleloading season first came up and was accepted by the G&F departments it was with the understanding that the very nature of the weapon limited its game taking abilities. This was true due to the fact that it was a single shot weapon which takes significient time to reload and its range was limited.
The last of these is really the only thing that has changed, this being: the weapons effective range.
It seems to me that shape of the projectile, the location of the ignition or a guns ability to deliver large amounts of energy at great distances becomes a mute point if the aiming system is standardized at the lowest common (accurate) level.
Said another way, if ALL firearms used in a Muzzleloader season were required to use Iron Sights Only, most true 'hunters' would self impose a range of about 130 yards max on themselves because they understand that is about the limits of an iron sighting system under hunting conditions.
One thing is for certain about Muzzleloading Season rules: Everyone will never agree on this issue.
Guest
Might I also add, thet the "fact" thet percussion and flintlock "ignition", with it's "less than 100% reliability" also played a big role in git'n the first muzzleloader seasons. (least in my state!!) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Huntinfool
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It's a sad state of affairs I agree with ya rollinb and others. We have a Wildlife Management area that we lobbied hard to keep the tree huggers from taking it off the hunting scene.
It is a Bowhunting / ML only area they have a huge sign which says Primitive Hunting Only. But now in WV they allow scopes that coupled with all the other modern BS there is nothing primitive about them.
The problem is money they sell more tags and get more deer harvested and with the Insurance Co. and all the Inline manufacturers lobbying we are fried.
Keep Yer Powder Dry Fellers,
unless you're usin' a dang Inline,
"The Chuckster" ::
It is a Bowhunting / ML only area they have a huge sign which says Primitive Hunting Only. But now in WV they allow scopes that coupled with all the other modern BS there is nothing primitive about them.
The problem is money they sell more tags and get more deer harvested and with the Insurance Co. and all the Inline manufacturers lobbying we are fried.
Keep Yer Powder Dry Fellers,
unless you're usin' a dang Inline,
"The Chuckster" ::
Take the scopes off 'em and get out of the trees, and start acting like hunters instead of bushwackers. Then maybe folks would consider them 'primative' again.
But that's just my opinion. I hold a similar one of the fishermen who use phemerone laced pre-packaged pellets to catch the harchery raised trout here in NY (after they follow the trucks to see where the fish were released). I'd rather hike in a few miles and catch a few, small native Brookies on flies I tied myself.
But that's just my opinion. I hold a similar one of the fishermen who use phemerone laced pre-packaged pellets to catch the harchery raised trout here in NY (after they follow the trucks to see where the fish were released). I'd rather hike in a few miles and catch a few, small native Brookies on flies I tied myself.
Guest
"Do you mean "other reasons" besides,.....
1. Modern jacketed bullets
2. Scopes
3. Smokeless powder
4. "Water-proof" inclosed breechs
5. 209 Shotgun primers
...... and etc??
The fact thet they STILL load from the muzzle, is become'n a rather "muted point",.... when compared to "OTHER" single-shot centerfires!!
=======================================================
I find no fault in 1-2-4-5 & either does 80% of shooters who preferred to purchase an inline over a sidelock in 2002-03. Also, I believe there are only a handful of states that refer to their special ml seasons as primitive or blackpowder.
Yes.. I object to smokeless powder in muzzleloaders.
Yes.. I object to muzzleloader racists.
1. Modern jacketed bullets
2. Scopes
3. Smokeless powder
4. "Water-proof" inclosed breechs
5. 209 Shotgun primers
...... and etc??
The fact thet they STILL load from the muzzle, is become'n a rather "muted point",.... when compared to "OTHER" single-shot centerfires!!
=======================================================
I find no fault in 1-2-4-5 & either does 80% of shooters who preferred to purchase an inline over a sidelock in 2002-03. Also, I believe there are only a handful of states that refer to their special ml seasons as primitive or blackpowder.
Yes.. I object to smokeless powder in muzzleloaders.
Yes.. I object to muzzleloader racists.
I call it Deer Season I don't B**** about what anyone uses.If I feel like taking my Sidelock so be it,but if I want my Inline thats what I will take.
To me I feel we are our worst enemy,when we are B******* between each other about such stuff.
Next thing you know you will be B******* about using Crossbows durring Achery Season /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
oneshot
To me I feel we are our worst enemy,when we are B******* between each other about such stuff.
Next thing you know you will be B******* about using Crossbows durring Achery Season /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
oneshot
I guess I'll stick my nose in here too.As another official old fart! It seems that We have several issues going on at once! (1) Not everyones concept of hunting is the same,Some as Myself enjoy being out in the woods and fields,even if no, or little game is taken on the hunt,We like to observe the behavior of all the animals in the area even those not on the game lists.The idea of carrying a weapon afield that was used by our forfathers,(or a replica thereof)Also gives Us much pleasure.It's not highly important to harvest the biggest rack in the woods.We are satisified to use stelth and knowlage of game habits to make a close and clean kill.A well placed shot with a patched round ball at reasonable range with iron sights is more important than reaching out 200+ yards with a magnum load and scope sights.On the other hand,because some prefer to use the most moderen technical advanced designs in guns and sights dosn't make us better,just different. (2)Many of the officials who set on the boards/commitees of the various State Fish&Game Depts.have never hunted with primitive weapons (black powder) They have no clear idea of whats involved in their use.The main goal of thease people is the control of the herds,flocks and schools,of game animals and fish so they stay healthy and don't destroy the habitat.It takes a large block of sportsmen to lobby thease folks.If You review some of the stupid rules of various states on regulateing muzzleloading weapons,it shows their lack of understanding of thease weapons.(3) It would seem that today the idea of hunting as a competitive sport i.e.Who shot the biggest racked B&C points is the most important factor in hunting, not how it was achived. Theres more that I could add but I've beat my gums enough for now. The one thing I do know is We need to stick together even if we dissagree on certain points.The Anti-hunter/gunners don't miss any oppertunity to devide snd conquer! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Guest
Whine, Whine, Whine, Whine, Whine. Its hunting. Leave it at that.
Guest
Show me the "numbers" to back up yore claim of "80%"!!
I'll make "no appology" for be'n a muzzleloader racist, and you might jest be careful 'bout "object'n" to folks of "my sort",...... 'cause they may very well be the same "folks" who lobbied for the muzzleloader-season "YOU" are now enjoy'n in yore state!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
The inline muzzleloader industry and the fellas thet buy'em, are the one's who started this "muzzleloader conflict"!!
Take away the inlines, and most of the inline-shooters would probly go back to shoot'n centerfires!! BTW, I use my traditional muzzleloader dur'n the "regular season",.... I wonder how many "inliners" refuse to switch to centerfires dur'n the regular season????
I'm "DEDICATED" to my traditional weapons,... but, I think most inliner's are jest "PART TIMER'S" use'n modern technology to capitalize on the "efforts of others"!!
In fact I wouldn't even object to thet,... if they'd simply admit thet small fact, 'stead'a make'n us traditionalists out to be the "bad guys" fer not like'n inlines (modified centerfires)!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Traditional muzzleloaders are a "labor of love"!!
Inline muzzleloaders are centerfires thet load from the muzzle!!
If all muzzleloader seasons were discontinued tomorrow,.... I'd continue hunt'n with my traditional muzzleloaders,... while yore inlines were turn'n to rust in yore closet 'cause you'd have NO "reason" to use'em anymore!!
:: /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gifGuest
I think modern technology has take'n some of the "hunt" out of HUNTING!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Nebraska calls their primitive season, "Muzzleloader"... The sick so and so's!!! :curse: I would be one of the first to vote for the use of only; sidelock of flint or percussion... Wood stock... Fixed sights... And by gawd be a HUNTER!!! People can keep those inlines for the modern season if they want to...
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