Is A .31 Worthless?

[nkbj]

Once upon a time my sister and I were target shooting in our gramma's front yard with an old hammerless palm squeezer safety S&W break top .32 with factory ammo. The thicker aluminum at the bottom of a tipped over drink can captured a bullet and held it while the can spun up in the air. The 4" barrel .31 percussion revolver had more punch with either buck shot or swaged lead round noses.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I don't have a 31 caliber rifle table to consult.

Per Lymans Black Powder Handbook, 1st ed. A 36 caliber rifle with a 20 inch barrel and 30 gr of 3fg, nets 343 ft lbs of muzzle energy. the 1851 Navy with 29 gr of 3fg nets only 216 ft lbs.

Roughly only 60% of the rifle's energy with almost identical charges. Velocity is 1476 fps MV for the rifle vs 1097 fps MV for the pistol

 

[BrownBear]

I don't have a 31 caliber rifle table to consult.

Per Lymans Black Powder Handbook, 1st ed. A 36 caliber rifle with a 20 inch barrel and 30 gr of 3fg, nets 343 ft lbs of muzzle energy. the 1851 Navy with 29 gr of 3fg nets only 216 ft lbs.

Roughly only 60% of the rifle's energy with almost identical charges. Velocity is 1476 fps MV for the rifle vs 1097 fps MV for the pistol

What does it say they're doing at 50 and 75 yards. I bet the difference really shrinks, like it does in all other round ball ballistics.

 

[Leatherbark]

I messed with an Uberti 49 Colt one time. Seems like I shot a dry Numrich Arms catalog and it penetrated to page 500 and something. I was sort of impressed. I do believe my load was 15gr of Swiss 3f and a Hornady buckshot somewhere around .320 diameter maybe 1 ought?

Bob

 

[rodwha]

Do recall getting any expansion?

On another forum a fellow had claimed to have shot one at a piece of plywood, and 4 bounced off, one striking him in the arm and leaving a bruise. Only one stuck, but he was able to pull it out with his fingers (IIRC). He gave them away.

I wonder if he was using a weaker powder and undersized balls. I've seen poor results from using smaller balls.

 

[Don]

There will be gas blow by with a smaller ball resulting in a loss of performance. A hot powder like Swiss or 777 is a big help for the .31 cal. revolvers.

Don

 

[Wes/Tex]

Back in 1998, "Handguns" magazine did an in-depth study of percussion revolvers to get a real feel for what they were actually capable of. Rather than just consulting charts, they compared results of actual firings and compared that with records of police and military reports about shootings to determine " one shot kill" ratio. Most of the .44's eventually compared favorably with the .44-40 & .45 Colt cartridges. The .36's actually compared ballistics wise with hot .380 HP loads of modern production. I found that surprising, but it does prove the old adage about accuracy being more important than power. The .31 compared favorably with the .22 Long Rifle HP, the results were:

.31: 12 gr. FFFg; vel.- 821 fps; energy - 69fp; gelatin penetration - 12.9 inches; recovered diameter - .31"; stretch cavity - 6.3 inches; one shot stop - 30%.

.22 LR: vel.- 975 fps; energy - 78fp; gelatin penetration - 10.3 inches; recovered diameter - .22; stretch cavity - 5.6 inches; one shot stop - 29%.

Without going deep into subject, the stretch and crush cavities are basically what a bullet does to flesh or ballistic gelatin. The "one shot stop" figures were determined after the extensive study of the shooting records and how certain caliber performed on the streets. Percussion pistols and revolvers are potent and deadly, the .31 was the 'belly gun' of it's day. For comparison, the .36 rated 59% on the "one shot stop" table, the 1860 Army at 75%, and the Walker at 87%. All these with FFFg powder.

 

[Leatherbark]

Do recall getting any expansion?

On another forum a fellow had claimed to have shot one at a piece of plywood, and 4 bounced off, one striking him in the arm and leaving a bruise. Only one stuck, but he was able to pull it out with his fingers (IIRC). He gave them away.

I wonder if he was using a weaker powder and undersized balls. I've seen poor results from using smaller balls.

I remember the 15 grain load barely cleared the barrel. The Hornady buckshot balls I've read are not pure lead. THe balls I got from the catalog had rifling engraved on the flats from swaging into the cylinder and then fired. No expansion I remember. Soft lead may have expanded, but probably would not have penetrated as far.

Bob

 

[nkbj]

What a shame they never made a .53 caliber five shot.
But as concerns .31's, a 6" barrel and larger powder capacity would be fun but our forefathers seem to have wanted revolvers for their purposes instead of mine, hence no rabbit hunter .31's.

 

[Zonie]

Quoting Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms about the Colt 1849, .31 caliber pistol:

.31 caliber, 5- and 6-shot cylinders. Barrel lengths of 3", 4", 5", and 6"; octagonal in shape, with or without attached loading levers (majority had levers).

The Third Edition Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Values says Uberti made a 1848 Baby Dragoon (forerunner of the 1849) with a 5" barrel but none of the Colt pocket pistols with a 6" barrel.

 

[rodwha]

I'd be quite interested in a .44 cal 5 shot. Even a .49 (.50) cal that would use the same ball as my rifle.

I know about the custom Old Army, but $1200 plus the base pistol is a bit too rich for my blood or my wallet. I'd have a lot more pistols and rifles if I had that much to spend! My list is long!

 

[nkbj]

Couldn't agree more. A revolver that took .490 ball would be great. Would like a .53 even more.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Couldn't agree more. A revolver that took .490 ball would be great. Would like a .53 even more.

Early revolver makers from Britain, both R. Adams and W. Tranter made what were called "self cocking" (we know it as double-action) revolvers in 38-bore, actually .500" caliber. Adams called his a "Dragoon" model and even had ads printed by Crimean War vets who claimed they'd be dead it their Adams revolvers hadn't been so quick to fire compared to Col. Colt's single actions. However, none of these would probably found in the $1,600 price range.

 

[tsafa]

Yes it is worthless unless you get a really tight .32 ball in there. Then you can bring it up to the power of a .22 pistol.

Gun .....................Barrel.........Powder by Volume.....Bullet Weight.................Avg Velocity.......... Energy............. Momentum
.31 Pocket, 1858.....3.5 inch.....15 grains 3F Pyrodex....47.5 grain, .315 ball.........433 ft/s..............36 ft-lbs..............2.93 ft-s
.31 Pocket, 1858....3.5 inch....15 grains 3F Pyrodex.....52 grain.... .323 ball.........770 ft/s.................68 ft-lbs..............5.72 ft-s

 

[Dale D]

It needs to be pointed out that Dave Tutt was hit in the heart. Any projectile in the 1870's that penetrated the heart would have been fatal regardless of caliber.

 

[rodwha]

Ooops! I suffered from lack of reading comprehension.

 

[rodwha]

Any projectile through the heart would be fatal then, but even with our modern stuff we hear of people lasting minutes and putting up a fight. Not so, from what I understand, in this case. He certainly wasn't one of those types we hear about hyped up on something!

 

The waters are muddy on the Hickok/Tutt shooting. There are those that suggest it was a .44, either a Dragoon or a Walker.

 

[rodwha]

I've also heard that it may have been a Dragoon.

To my little mind and the way it works I see someone who thinks he may go into a gunfight carrying what he knows well and does well with, and that seems likely to be his .36 cal Colt Navies. But that is all in the way I see it, and not how it necessarily played out, knowing that he may very well have been good with a Dragoon as well, and may have wanted something a bit bigger.

A hole is a hole, but a .44 cal hole is certainly bigger then one of .36 caliber! I'd also assume the extra weight may help with penetration, though I don't fully understand how this works.

Regardless, what we saw in this video was remarkable, and far more than I would have expected from a .36 cal RB with a smaller charge (though of some powerful powder) at such a range. I'd think a .31 cal RB might do similarly with a full charge of more powerful powder at 7 yds.

 

[gooddw]

I have an 1849 Colt in .31. Has 6" barrel. Says made in Italy but I don't know by whom.

I would post a picture but don't know how.