is it ok to store black powder in crawlspace?

[Bledfor Days]

4F must be guarded at all times!!!

 

[fleener]

From the ATF's website.

Fleener

Black powder is an explosive material for purposes of federal explosives laws and regulations.

However, the law exempts from regulation commercially manufactured black powder in quantities not exceeding 50 pounds (as well as percussion caps, safety and pyrotechnic fuses, quills, quick and slow matches, and friction primers) intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in antique firearms as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(16) or in antique devices exempted from the term "destructive device" in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(4).

 

[Bad Karma]

A

Yep; that Nicolas Cage is a good actor...

Ah, but the Leading lady...

 

[Bigbore]

Bigbore, on burying BP. If I was burying it I would put it in a large PVC tube capped and glued at both ends to keep out moisture and critters. One problem with burying it is if something happens to you, are there family etc. who can find it or will it be a potential bomb buried there for some future person to have an accident when they find it.

Yup, I planned to let family that live away from me know what and where it is buried. I just thought of the insulated cooler because it is water tight and insulated to keep the temperature more constant and the vacuum sealed bags would keep it air and water tight.

 

[Many Klatch]

Keeping the powder in an old refrigerator is always a good choice. It is reasonably fire proof and with a padlock mounted on it, fairly secure.

 

[SPQR70AD]

I had rifle pyrodex that I forgot about for 25 years in the plastic container it came in. it is very hard to ignite and I will get rid of it. I had pioneer powder same amount of time same type of container and that is still like new

 

[Bad Karma]

Do they allow any of it to be 4f?

That would be unnecessarily reckless!

 

[Tumbledown]

I use 50 cal ammo cans to secure and protect my black powder which is in plastic containers from the factory. NY be dammed wood is neither secure nor dry. Then keep them in the basement cool. Works, used a half can of Goex bought in 1985 in 2019 and worked as well as the goex that came after.

Wood boxes are as secure and dry as any metal cabinet or basement shelving would be. The plastic containers then go inside the box. Wood also acts as an insulator from heat, and half inch thick walls take a little time to burn through. It's about fire protection. Your ammo cans are useless for that, and indeed will become bombs.

 

[Tumbledown]

Do you have to paint day-goo "H E" in foot high letters on all exterior walls?

No.

 

[Tumbledown]

You know, someone asked about storage. I advised to check local laws, and some of you chose to ridicule the issue. There's something that needs to be considered beyond keeping the powder clean and dry, and that's safety in a fire or accident. Things happen. A few extra details that may seem ridiculous or unnecessary may also mean liability or lack of insurance coverage should something go wrong.

Your risk, your choice.

 

[Boston Bill]

Kept cool, in wooden containers, black powder will remain energetic for decades :

That was awesome!

 

[Boston Bill]

You know, someone asked about storage. I advised to check local laws, and some of you chose to ridicule the issue. There's something that needs to be considered beyond keeping the powder clean and dry, and that's safety in a fire or accident. Things happen. A few extra details that may seem ridiculous or unnecessary may also mean liability or lack of insurance coverage should something go wrong.

Your risk, your choice.

He is right. In Massachusetts the amount of powder and primers is ridiculously low. Powder and primers are set off during a house fire and you have 2 or 3 times the amount you should have, what are the odds of the insurance company not paying the claim?

 

[Col. Batguano]

Is that a MA law you cited there? Or is it a local ordinance thing? Two pounds of BP isn't a heck of a lot. Two cases of .22 ammo would put you over the limit too. The locked cabinet could, if metal, (like an old refrigerator) become pressurized enough to become a bomb. As stated above, I wouldn't worry too much about a snap inspection of your storage by the authorities. They would have to have a good reason to look at it. We still have the 4th Amendment here in this country.

Of greater concern is how it affects your insurance policy coverage. Most will cover you for your own stupidity, but not if it involves illegal activity, even if it is inadvertent.

 

[FishDFly]

Perfect dry and constant temperature storage place is under your bed, wife's side.

 

[Tumbledown]

Perfect dry and constant temperature storage place is under your bed, wife's side.

Not if she gets hot flashes!

 

[Nameless Hunter]

Is that a MA law you cited there? Or is it a local ordinance thing? Two pounds of BP isn't a heck of a lot. Two cases of .22 ammo would put you over the limit too. The locked cabinet could, if metal, (like an old refrigerator) become pressurized enough to become a bomb. As stated above, I wouldn't worry too much about a snap inspection of your storage by the authorities. They would have to have a good reason to look at it. We still have the 4th Amendment here in this country.

Of greater concern is how it affects your insurance policy coverage. Most will cover you for your own stupidity, but not if it involves illegal activity, even if it is inadvertent.

From a Google search...
527 CMR 1.00: MASSACHUSETTS COMPREHENSIVE FIRE SAFETY CODE regulates the amount of ammunition and components you are allowed to possess.

Without a special permit, you can store:

• Not more than 10,000 rounds of rimfire ammunition
• Not more than 10,000 rounds of centerfire rifle/pistol ammunition
• Not more than 5,000 rounds of shotgun ammunition
• Not more than 9999 primers
• Up to (but less than) 16 pounds of smokeless powder
• Up to (but less than) 2 pounds of black powder

527 CMR 1.00 also stipulates that an ammunition storage permit can be obtained from the head of the local fire department.

With a storage permit, you can store:

• Up to 30,000 rounds of rimfire ammunition*
• Up to 50,000 rounds of centerfire rifle/pistol ammunition*
• Up to 50,000 rounds of shotgun ammunition*
• Not more than 9999 primers
• Not more than 47 pounds of smokeless powder
• Not more than 5 pounds of black powder

* Total of all ammunition cannot exceed 100,000 rounds

 

[Col. Batguano]

I wonder if having such a permit (and I'm sure there's a cost involved) would require disclosure on a homeowner's policy?

The amounts of ammunition / primers / powder seem like an amount that a dedicated firearms enthusiast and shooter might have in a "normal" home. The 5 pounds of BP limit seems rather low though given the other numbers. 47 pounds of smokeless is enough for about (at 60 gr. charges) 5500 rifle rounds or 22,000 pistol rounds (15 gr.). 5 pounds of BP is only enough for about 500 shots (70 gr. charges).

I wonder if they similarly want to limit you on the amount of raw flint you might possess?
How about a home printing press?
Costumes to disguise yourselves as Indians to throw tea in to the harbor?

 

[Tumbledown]

And to think, 250 years ago people in Massachusetts weren't allowed to keep their own powder, either...you know, for their own "safety"...

 

[SPQR70AD]

how about a 1000 gal above the ground propane tank? or 1200 gal above ground oil tank? if they blew it would make 5 lbs of BP that blew up seem like a firecracker

 

[rp77469]

I store mine in the garage refrigerator in the old vegetable bins, right underneath my home brew and Saint Arnolds Elissa IPA stash. I figure that's the safest place in case of fire. Firefighters have told me of grabbing a cold Coke from a fridge after the fire was out. Garage is locked when I am not in it, which is pretty much only when I am asleep.