Is traditional ML on the upswing?

[smokehouseman]

Not a chance sorry to say .

 

[David W.]

The only way I see a resurgance is for state hunting laws changed so that only TRUE primitave rifles are used for hunting. I am not sure on the states, but I think Oregon does not allow zip guns in the muzzleloader season. Please correct me if the state is wrong.

A hunting show using traditional rifles, specifically flintlocks, wouldn't hurt. Even a show demonstrating how accurate flinters are wouldn't hurt either. It's the little things that make a big difference. I remember when I was a kid and watched Ben Pearson shooting wood planks out of the air with a long bow, got me real intrested in archery. By the same token, an experienced ML marksman could do the same for our cause.

 

[Vaino]

If'n we dyed our hair, played blaring rock 'n roll music, dressed w/ the times and served free lunches and beer that might show the younger generation that we're not just a bunch of old coots who load from the wrong end. Seriously....as w/ any endeavor that requires some degree of study and motivation, traditional MLing appeals to very few and all the ideas to increase interest in our sport won't succeed because of today's culture. My gun club never lacks for members {450} and in fact the waiting list is quite long but nearly all are CF guys. Wednesday AMs are the BP get-togethers and a total of 6 attend including 2 tactless "know it alls" who if I were a young person somewhat interested in MLers would be discouraged from proceeding further. Have you come in contact w/ such people? Let's face it....at BP events, the "gray hairs" predominate and this doesn't bode well for traditional MLing....Fred

 

[oldfart1956]

Well fellers like most of ya'll I'm afraid it's a dying art. And I'm partially to blame. I used to make it a point to bring at least 1 new shooter into the fold each year. The last 2 years I've been busy remodeling my home and..well..lots of excuses but I got lazy. The only one that can save our sport is us. The hunting rags won't do it 'cause there's no money in it. The hunting shows on t.v. are just 1/2hr. long advertisements. Sooo..how many members do we have in Muzzleloading Forum? How 'bout we pledge to git off our collective arses and find 1...just 1 new shooter this year. 2010. Post photos of yer new recruit and take them shooting AND hunting. Surely we kin scrounge up a few newbies..eh? Next time instead of showing that gun to an interested shooter hand it over to them and carry their shell-shucker for a day. Give up some time at the range and show 'em how to load and shoot then watch 'em. Yup...I need to git busy..times a'wastin'! Audie..down but not out.

 

[GBG]

Well said Audie. If as much time were spent discussing how to recruit and encourage youngsters as has been "debating" some subjects, the future might look brighter. Get them shooting for fun and friendship first, then their interest in and appreciation for history and tradition may be kindled.

 

[jbtusa]

Nope. Americana (and America) is dying.

 

[ohio ramrod]

We must continue to recruit the young'uns or our sport will die!. In the last year I have got a young man at out church to start shooting and join the local club with his two sons, they inturn got a family with two teenagers to join. But at the same time we lost five members due to death or age related health problems. In the last seven years I have taken my nephew's boys with me to rendezvous but they keep going to the service or college and leave the area. I am now down to his youngest boy who will finish high school this spring. My grandson likes to "go camping" with me but he is still a few years from shooting.

 

[biliff]

but I think Oregon does not allow zip guns in the muzzleloader season. Please correct me if the state is wrong.

In-lines are allowed in Oregon with restrictions. Exposed ignition, no centerfire primers, no sabots,lead ball or short conical ....etc.

Used to be no fibre optic sights allowed but they changed it starting next year.

Standard issue around here seems to be either a TC caplock with a conical or one of the legal in-lines with a conical.

It's still just another limitted draw tag for most people. If they allowed unlimitted in-lines tomorrow the current crop of guns in use would be in pawn shops the day after tomorrow.

 

[larry wv]

Yes their are more side locks in the pawn shops around here all the time. Last time I went their was a TC Hawken nice for 150 or offer. Was broke at the time Larry Wv

 

[zrifleman]

Oregon allows inlines with iron sights only, no scopes or day glo sights.

 

[tg]

Oregon took some steps away from technology but many still use modern bullets and modern peep sights which gives them the same thing as a 45/70 or 50/110 cartridge gun minus the brass, hardly traditional ML hunting,unless it is traditional to the late 20th century, they take it as close to a modern gun ballistically as they can.

 

[RugerDog]

From what I've observed in the short time I've been a convert, the traditionals will be for old time curmudgeons like most of us. There's a reason the sport evolved to the inlines, and increasingly to plastic stocks.

I'll bet most of us have other ideosyncracies - heck, I roast my own coffee, and use a shaving brush with a soap...

The only bright spot is that there's a large upcoming supply of old time curmudgeons...

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Part of the problem with target shooting is the elistist attitude would be's get as well. Buckskinners are always friendly, will give ya the shirt off their back. But at the matches around here, it is the same winners months after months year in year out. New guys lose interest after about two matches. A group I once shot with, made sure that new guys and less than stellar shooters were in the mix. They gave a prize also to the shooter with the 50% percentile score. So the guy that fell right in the pack with half the scores higher and half lower, got a prize. That little bone kept newbies coming back. There was something they could attain with moderate practice and didn't favor just the gray beards.

I really think the Eastern rendezvous could do more to recruit folks. More to bring in the groups for tours, demonstrations and even for stays. Allow groups to stay in a beginner's camp to get the feel of it. A place where the rules need not be so strict.

I agree that a movie could do wonders. Davey Crockett laid the seed for many of us. I always felt that a movie about Lewis and Clark could be well done and in this day and age, would not have to be violent.

Perhaps even a goup of youngins into Muzzleloaders patterned after the boy scouts. Where history and frontier skills are emphasized with matches, camp outs etc.

Some gun groups have what they call "fun days". Any comers can take part, demonstrations, actually letting them shoot, throw a hawk, start a fire, etc. No body competing for scores. Just fun.

 

[Jason Lewis]

Part of the problem with target shooting is the elistist attitude would be's get as well. Buckskinners are always friendly, will give ya the shirt off their back. But at the matches around here, it is the same winners months after months year in year out. New guys lose interest after about two matches. A group I once shot with, made sure that new guys and less than stellar shooters were in the mix. They gave a prize also to the shooter with the 50% percentile score. So the guy that fell right in the pack with half the scores higher and half lower, got a prize. That little bone kept newbies coming back. There was something they could attain with moderate practice and didn't favor just the gray beards.

I really think the Eastern rendezvous could do more to recruit folks. More to bring in the groups for tours, demonstrations and even for stays. Allow groups to stay in a beginner's camp to get the feel of it. A place where the rules need not be so strict.

I agree that a movie could do wonders. Davey Crockett laid the seed for many of us. I always felt that a movie about Lewis and Clark could be well done and in this day and age, would not have to be violent.

Perhaps even a goup of youngins into Muzzleloaders patterned after the boy scouts. Where history and frontier skills are emphasized with matches, camp outs etc.

Some gun groups have what they call "fun days". Any comers can take part, demonstrations, actually letting them shoot, throw a hawk, start a fire, etc. No body competing for scores. Just fun.

that's a pretty cool idea.

 

[John Wasmuth]

In other words, the cattle are in Hollywood's chute getting their brains dipped?
Yeah, maybe so. In a decade or so maybe reenactors will parade around with jezails.

No way!
Cattle can actually fight back. Could it be my brother that yer maybe referin ta sheep? :haha:

 

[Dave K]

"quote" "Part of the problem with target shooting is the elistist attitude would be's get as well. Buckskinners are always friendly, will give ya the shirt off their back. But at the matches around here, it is the same winners months after months year in year out. New guys lose interest after about two matches. A group I once shot with, made sure that new guys and less than stellar shooters were in the mix. They gave a prize also to the shooter with the 50% percentile score. So the guy that fell right in the pack with half the scores higher and half lower, got a prize. That little bone kept newbies coming back. There was something they could attain with moderate practice and didn't favor just the gray beards."

Yes, you are right on most counts, but that is why so many go to modern types of guns that they can scope. Many people just don't have that competitve desire to win......on their own merit. Though I can see real value in novice type of awards. I remember a few years ago, I was competeing in restored motorcycle shows with my restored '67 Triumph TR6R. I studied and worked hard by looking at what was winning, what was correct and why. After about a year, I was winning at all the shows I attended. After studying the "bench mark" winners, I was one of them that became the bench mark. I earned it, by hard work. My last show I was asked,"how many trophies do you need to win?" I have NEVER forgot that. I sold the bike and left that part of the hobby. Don't people have a desire to win by being better? Does an Olympian have to quit because he raised the standards higher to succeed? Should the Super Bowl winner stop competing? Is there supposed to be affirmative action in competition? Yes, we should all look to help those that need or seek our advice and I actually enjoy it, but handing it to them, just never was in my cards. I always had to earn it. It had just always been the American way! :surrender:

 

[BrownBear]

I don't know about traditional being on the upswing, but around here the inline users are falling like flies.

You see it in the want ads. Rifles offered for sale at less than half price, often well under $200. Guys say things like "not using it any more." And every one of them is offering it up with half a pack of bullets, usually saying it's the original pack they bought with the gun a few years ago.

The question is, are they switching to traditional guns or getting out of it altogether?

 

[AZ Muzzle]

I realize I am preaching to the choir about black powder orgasms.

I shoot with the Muzzle Stuffers at the Rio Salado Shooting Range in Mesa, AZ. When I started shooting with the club we had a dozen or so shooters. The last Sunday we shot we had over 45 people making smoke and several interested people came out just to watch.

I believe we had had an increase in the last two years because of the friendly atmosphere of the club. Many of the guy’s bring an extra rifle for those wishing to try and make some smoke. There is always a table set up for trading and buying black powder weapons and gears at the range when we shoot. Many of us in the club make powder horns, supply flints, cappers, possible bags as prizes for the by-weekly matches.

Next week the NMLRA Western National Shoot is I Northern Phoenix at the Ben Avery Shooting Range.

I hope to see a few of you at the match. Weather has been in the high 60’s so it’s perfect weather to make smoke, enjoy the winter desert, and meet new friends and embrace old buddies.

Mark B

 

[SimonKenton]

Follow the money!!! You CAN'T turn out GOOD flinters on an assembly line in China but when it comes to cheatlines you CAN crank 'em out and bubble pack them for sale in Wally World for $200 including basic accessories. Add the ability to shoot any third rate (but "safe" and political viable) BP substitute and we are COOKED. :surrender:

They can flood a market with cheatlines and made tons of cash. Look how Toby Bridges sold his soul to the cheatlines. He USED to be an authority on flintlocks. :barf:

Look at the TV shows. ALL you see are cheatlines. WHEN have you seen side hammer guns other than in movies? :cursing:

-Ray

 

[John Wasmuth]

Tobys a legend in his own mind. Always has been.