Is traditional ML on the upswing?

[Celt5494]

Man, all I got to do when I was in the Scouts was go backpacking and from time to time make a bonfire. When we got bored we got into rock throwing contests etc. There kids have it made these days. It's nice to see they are doing something positive. With the proper guidance many of them will move onto succesful jobs and be productive members of society.

 

[oldfart1956]

By golly this things is gittin' some legs to it now. I must say it seems most of you fellers sure are trying. Good! Now something else to keep in mind is we need more shooters and they don't all have to be young'uns. When we put on a shoot here in my little village (2 stop signs and a feedstore) we invite everbody! And I have one requirement..everbody shoots. No wallflowers. Some are slow to try it..but they're never bashfull about taking the second shot!!! A lot of modern gun shooters just never shot a decent flintlock. And since most folks seem to dispise the hunting channel as much as I..there is one company making real honest flintlock hunting videos. Beckum Outdoors. Google it. Mebbe...just mebbe if we support them they might just keep going. Eh? Audie..the Oldfart..watchin' the snow fly.

 

[gordy]

I have to agree that traditional weapons used for hunting , target shooting and reenacting is on a downhill trend. And have to agree that unless we as a group do somthing to reverse rhis trend , we will witness the extintion of our place in the shpooting sports.
Like most things worthwhile , it's not going to be easy! I feel that the first step is to identify the "enemy". We know without a doubt that the anti-gun ,anti-hunting, animal rights groups such a peta and even the spca are continuing to fan the fires against private ownership of all firearms , I don't feel that they by themselvs would have the power to destroy our second amendment rights.
I believe we need to start at grass roots level and take back control of our local school boards , make the shooting sports a larger part of the local Scout groups , FFA , 4H etc. . We need to pay closer attention to local politics and put in office only those people that exhibit a true desire to support our 2nd amendment rights.
We can't fight the many crooked and ignorant congreemen and senators by head on confrontationat at their level , but do away with their support from the local level . We also need to see that more (TRUE) history is taught in our primary school systems . And last but not least we need to work on the media and force them to give time to the lawfull use of firearms rather than exploit the few that choose to create havoc by the illegal use of them.
I guess I've rambeled on long enough , so will close it out ' just one more thing we need to be able to focus our childrens attention on heros that arn't bar hopping drug using sports figures. :v :thumbsup:

 

[Celt5494]

Another place that seems to be helping is the NRA. I from time to time see articles on flinters and accoutraments. I think they also need to hear our voices about this subject and maybe they can give it a bit more attention.

 

[tg]

", it's not going to be easy! I feel that the first step is to identify the "enemy"."

I have meet the enemy,and he is us.We cannot bring new shooters into the traditional world of ML's if we are not there ourselves,this has been an ongoing problem since TC set the standards for traditional gear many years ago.The "easy" route or what is percieved to be is typicaly that which is taught by some and looked for by the others.plastic speed loaders, Co2 dischargers, clamp on cleaning devices,modern projectiles and sights,the list of non traditional gear that many have been taught we "need" goes on, it is like trying to teach French with a text book writtten in German.

 

[deanscamaro]

I am a paper hunter and really enjoy just the process of shooting blackpowder. I go out to shoot, enjoy the process and continue to perfect my rifle's and my own accuracy. Used to hunt inline, but gave it up years ago.

I go across the Phoenix Valley to Mesa, to a shooting range that has a club called the Muzzle Stuffers who have their monthly shoots there. I make the trip to buy black powder, which they buy in quantity and sell to anyone at their low price. I am one of those relative newbies that hesitate to get into competition because of the skill of the "old timers". But this club really makes it a point (various members have done it) at encourging me to join in, poo-pooing my protests at my lack of skill....I still haven't jumped in yet, but plan to in the near future. But that makes me believe that the members of this sport are a pretty considerate bunch and I believe that the sport may condense down, but a steady level of that type of person, who gravitate to their own, will be attracted to it and will keep it from dying.

:v :thumbsup:

 

[Celt5494]

I am a paper hunter and really enjoy just the process of shooting blackpowder. I go out to shoot, enjoy the process and continue to perfect my rifle's and my own accuracy. Used to hunt inline, but gave it up years ago.

I go across the Phoenix Valley to Mesa, to a shooting range that has a club called the Muzzle Stuffers who have their monthly shoots there. I make the trip to buy black powder, which they buy in quantity and sell to anyone at their low price. I am one of those relative newbies that hesitate to get into competition because of the skill of the "old timers". But this club really makes it a point (various members have done it) at encourging me to join in, poo-pooing my protests at my lack of skill....I still haven't jumped in yet, but plan to in the near future. But that makes me believe that the members of this sport are a pretty considerate bunch and I believe that the sport may condense down, but a steady level of that type of person, who gravitate to their own, will be attracted to it and will keep it from dying.

:v :thumbsup:

Jump in there and shoot with those guys and you'll have a hoot. Many of us could care less how well you do or don't shoot. We just like the camaraderie of being with others who enjoy shooting traditional BP. Besides you'll find that you are probably shooting quite well anyway.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

", it's not going to be easy! I feel that the first step is to identify the "enemy"."

I have meet the enemy,and he is us.We cannot bring new shooters into the traditional world of ML's if we are not there ourselves,this has been an ongoing problem since TC set the standards for traditional gear many years ago.The "easy" route or what is percieved to be is typicaly that which is taught by some and looked for by the others.plastic speed loaders, Co2 dischargers, clamp on cleaning devices,modern projectiles and sights,the list of non traditional gear that many have been taught we "need" goes on, it is like trying to teach French with a text book writtten in German.

I beg to respectfully disagree. If you think for one second that ANYBODY who is being introduced to this great hobby of ours is going to care what shape the projectile is or whether or not the powder was pre-measured and poured from a plastic tube, you are sadly mistaken! Your war against conicals doesn't have a place in this context.

Here is but one example of what I mean: Teaching Boy Scouts how to shoot percussion rifles isn't a crime. When you're doing 200 boys in a single day and the rifle demo is just one station out of several, using those little plastic tubes stored in a cigar box is the best way to get the most shooting in. And THAT'S what teaching kids (and their parents) is about. Letting everyone shoot the rifle! Yes, I do use PRB's. But not making folks wait to shoot is the primary concern when I'm doing large groups, so I use those little tubes to make sure that EVERYBODY gets to shoot the rifle. If a couple of those kids get infected with black powder shooting, I've done my job. Whether or not they want to shoot cap or flint or dress the part is up to them--I've made sure that they're using REAL BLACK to have fun and make smoke! That's the point of this thread.

In the context of Newbies, if the rifle isn't an inline or an AR-15 or other center-fire, AND IT USES REAL BLACK POWDER, it's TRADITIONAL!

I didn't type this to light your short fuse...I did so merely to ask you to stop creating a problem by calling folks like me "THE ENEMY".

Dave

 

[killer]

I am a paper hunter and really enjoy just the process of shooting blackpowder. I go out to shoot, enjoy the process and continue to perfect my rifle's and my own accuracy. Used to hunt inline, but gave it up years ago.

I go across the Phoenix Valley to Mesa, to a shooting range that has a club called the Muzzle Stuffers who have their monthly shoots there. I make the trip to buy black powder, which they buy in quantity and sell to anyone at their low price. I am one of those relative newbies that hesitate to get into competition because of the skill of the "old timers". But this club really makes it a point (various members have done it) at encourging me to join in, poo-pooing my protests at my lack of skill....I still haven't jumped in yet, but plan to in the near future. But that makes me believe that the members of this sport are a pretty considerate bunch and I believe that the sport may condense down, but a steady level of that type of person, who gravitate to their own, will be attracted to it and will keep it from dying.

:v :thumbsup:

Im with you I shoot with old timers that frankly are awsome. They all have custom guns and im shooting a lyman gpr. But that does not stop me im saveing my pennies for a new gun and until then i give em hell, its alot of fun and i use this oppertunity to learn from these very skilled shooters. So just jump in both feet first and go get them..

 

[tg]

"Your war against conicals doesn't have a place in this context."

I have no war with traditional conicals,I mearly expressed what is quite obvious if looked at from the overall history of "traditional" ML'g since around 1970 and the fact is you cannot teach tradition if you practice something else while trying, I am not going an farther with this as it is lost cause and has been for many years, as most live in a world of denile, and that is not the river in Africa.It is good you spend time with the youngsters, more folks should do this, I found it quite rewarding myself and we managed to do it without a lot of modern gadgetry, and inline ignitions are traditional if you recall.

 

[gordy]

Dave , I don't think TG meant to condem you or any that may use some of the modern plastic gear or projectiles , but addressed his condennation on the suppliers that tend to use half truths to establish a money making plastic gadget as historically acceptable. The term " truth in advertising " means nothing to the peopl who design the advertising campains for the companys that hire them. We must remember that many of these same agencys develope the campains for the politicions running for office at all levels of goverment , and we know how trustworthy many of them turn out to be. :bull:
I would like to commend you for the work you are doing with the youth. And I don't think anyone would condem you for using plastic loading tubes to keep control while teaching the basics of muzzleloading . Many of the young people that are drawen to our sport have little education in history . first you have to get their attention :hmm: and then guide them towards learning the history that surrounds these smoke belching weapons. :thumbsup: As with any pursuit some folks are satisfied at a certain level , others enjoy the pursuit of greater knowkedge :v If we can't learn to wwork together we'll never win this struggle . :thumbsup:

 

[gordy]

OOPS! I'm baby sitting two grand kids and had to seperate them and put TG instead of Smokin 50 , sorry. :redface: :redface:

 

[gordy]

OOPS once more! I'll get youfolks strightened out if it takes all day. I did have it right the first time . :redface: :redface: :rotf: I do hhave an excuse ---I'm OLD!!! :thumbsup:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Thanks for the Kudos!

I've been teaching Scouts how to shoot for almost 10 years now. I teach anyone who wants to try it out. I consider it an honor and a privilege to be able to "pay it forward".

I'm going to take the high road and not get into any arguments with anybody. That's just a waste of my valuable time. Instead, I'm going to give another example of how to infect the public with TRADITIONAL firearms:

Every May one of the clubs that I belong to runs a "Women's Day at the Range" on a Saturday. Pre-registration is required and space is limited to the first 55 women that sign-up. Lunch is included with your $10.00 registration. I help-out by running another station other than muzzle loading since half of the Black Powder League that I belong to is there to run their station, some even in period dress. Under careful supervision member's rifles, single-shot pistols and revolvers are all loaded and given to the women to shoot. They shoot at paper, novelty targets, and even an exploding target that's taped to the cardboard target hanger. They absolutely LOVE shooting those antique replica guns, and after just a little instruction, most women find the target quite easily, due to the fact that they listen intently and follow instructions well! It's a day-long activity and it's generally sold-out weeks in advance.

Quite a few women started-out the day very apprehensive about firearms usage. Then, when they started hitting what they're aiming at, the cheering started! Soon, even the woman that didn't want to try was finding-out how much fun our great sport/hobby can be. I and a few other League Chairman brought with us women trainers to teach the ladies how to shoot. This also aids in "breaking the glass ceiling" or "breaking the ice" as it were.

Our club has done this for several years now, and we have applied for and received grant monies from the NRA's "Women on Target" Program. Anyone reading this can send me a PT or contact the NRA directly to learn more about the program.

I feel that being PROACTIVE instead of sitting around and waiting for some kind of IMPENDING DOOM is the key to success to win both minds and hearts as far as the shooting sports is concerned. This Women on Target Program isn't just about Black Powder, and that's O-K! We as shooters need to realize that ALL forms of shooting are good, and the more folks that try our sport will continue with it. We've found that having about 4-5 different activities is a really good mix: Black Powder, Shotgun, PPC, Static Steel, and High Power seems to get the Ladies to stay after lunch and shoot some more! But it all starts with the CHANCE TO TRY IT! Some Ladies will like one of the centerfire disciplines like clay bird shooting with a shotgun, and that's GREAT! That's one more person who given the choice, may vote along with US! Most of these Ladies are Moms. These Moms go home and infect the entire family with shooting, and SOME of them pick-up a black powder firing replica for themselves! The IDEA IS TO GET THEM HAVING FUN WITH FIREARMS!

Here's a link to the club's web site: www.oldbridgerifle.com . Check-out some of the newsletters for the Muzzle Loaders League as well as the new flier on Women's Day at the Range.

O-K, I'm off the soapbox now!

Dave

 

[tg]

Old is not good,but better than dead,my point is that if we have not been teaching traditional ML'ng we cannot expect to have a new generation of traditional ML'ers, what is traditional is something I will not get into as I do not want to start a 10 pg. quagmire.

 

[Problem Child]

I've been a Traditional Archer only for about 5-6 years. I was flipping through the channels one night and stopped on "Pawn Stars". It was an episode with someone bringing in an old Flintlock of some sort.A few days later I was shooting my inline. Then oneday my boss and I started a conversation about muzzleloaders.He said he had an old TC he would sell.It was a White Mountain Carbine.I bought it and started shooting it.That was around Christmas 09.It's about 5 weeks later and I'm averaging buying one side-hammer each week.I love "Pawn Stars".

 

[Little Wattsy]

", it's not going to be easy! I feel that the first step is to identify the "enemy"."

I have meet the enemy,and he is us.We cannot bring new shooters into the traditional world of ML's if we are not there ourselves,this has been an ongoing problem since TC set the standards for traditional gear many years ago.The "easy" route or what is percieved to be is typicaly that which is taught by some and looked for by the others.plastic speed loaders, Co2 dischargers, clamp on cleaning devices,modern projectiles and sights,the list of non traditional gear that many have been taught we "need" goes on, it is like trying to teach French with a text book writtten in German.

I beg to respectfully disagree. If you think for one second that ANYBODY who is being introduced to this great hobby of ours is going to care what shape the projectile is or whether or not the powder was pre-measured and poured from a plastic tube, you are sadly mistaken! Your war against conicals doesn't have a place in this context.

Here is but one example of what I mean: Teaching Boy Scouts how to shoot percussion rifles isn't a crime. When you're doing 200 boys in a single day and the rifle demo is just one station out of several, using those little plastic tubes stored in a cigar box is the best way to get the most shooting in. And THAT'S what teaching kids (and their parents) is about. Letting everyone shoot the rifle! Yes, I do use PRB's. But not making folks wait to shoot is the primary concern when I'm doing large groups, so I use those little tubes to make sure that EVERYBODY gets to shoot the rifle. If a couple of those kids get infected with black powder shooting, I've done my job. Whether or not they want to shoot cap or flint or dress the part is up to them--I've made sure that they're using REAL BLACK to have fun and make smoke! That's the point of this thread.

In the context of Newbies, if the rifle isn't an inline or an AR-15 or other center-fire, AND IT USES REAL BLACK POWDER, it's TRADITIONAL!I didn't type this to light your short fuse...I did so merely to ask you to stop creating a problem by calling folks like me "THE ENEMY".

Dave

"In the context of Newbies, if the rifle isn't an inline or an AR-15 or other center-fire, AND IT USES REAL BLACK POWDER, it's TRADITIONAL!"
EXACTLY and Well said!! :thumbsup:
But Ill tell ya you dont get Don Quixote to give up wind mills with simple logic. :wink:

 

[Claude Mathis]

"In the context of Newbies, if the rifle isn't an inline or an AR-15 or other center-fire, AND IT USES REAL BLACK POWDER, it's TRADITIONAL!"
EXACTLY and Well said!! :thumbsup:

Well, let's also assume that it doesn't have a stainless steel barrel, plastic stock and a scope. :wink:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

"In the context of Newbies, if the rifle isn't an inline or an AR-15 or other center-fire, AND IT USES REAL BLACK POWDER, it's TRADITIONAL!"
EXACTLY and Well said!! :thumbsup:

Well, let's also assume that it doesn't have a stainless steel barrel, plastic stock and a scope. :wink:

I of course meant either a percussion or a flinter, traditional style, made of wood & steel, with IRON sights, since it's the only kind I or my son own :wink:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Aren't wind mills driven by hot air :hmm: .

Thanks for the Kudos!

dave