Is traditional ML on the upswing?

[bigmedicinewolf]

Buddy, you and I are not on the same side! Oh, and when I call you out its a "diatribe" but when you went off on tg like he insulted your mother that wasn't a diatribe? You weren't on a soapbox earlier, you were on your highhorse! Just like too many other progressives, you don't like debate.

 

[Claude Mathis]

Everyone please get back on topic and stop the personal and political comments.

"Is traditional ML on the upswing?"

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Buddy, you and I are not on the same side! Oh, and when I call you out its a "diatribe" but when you went off on tg like he insulted your mother that wasn't a diatribe? You weren't on a soapbox earlier, you were on your highhorse! Just like too many other progressives, you don't like debate.

O-K,

You've been registered with the forum for 11 months and your only 2 posts are flagrantly agitative to say the least. People don't get "called-out" here, as this isn't a street fight. Nor is it a debating society. We merely discuss traditional muzzle loading with all of its loosely related topics. tg and I have more in common than not, especially when it comes to teaching youngsters about black powder firearms, and we both realize it. There's no need for you to pull him into YOUR PROBLEM! And for the record, I wasn't aware that he and I EVEN HAD A PROBLEM!

I don't have a "high horse", especially around here! If I don't know about something, I either wait for someone else to answer the poster or I offer what I do know from personal experience, and then suggest that so and so knows more than I, and you should wait to hear from them.

I'm a registered Republican, not a progressive. This thread isn't supposed to get political! There are other places for that in Non-ML (maybe not for long, if this keeps up)!

I am not part of a debate. This thread isn't a debate, nor is it mean spirited, until you decided to "call me out".

I just want to get-along. Can we do that?

Claude, I'm sorry, but I had to answer this gentleman. If you pull the post, I'll understand. Up to now I think that everyone participating has thoroughly enjoyed this thread, me included, and I respectfully request that it be allowed to continue as long as the :bull: comes to an end. Thank-you!

Dave

 

[tg]

"CAN IT! I'm on your side, so there's no reason to be insulting.

Oh, and before I forget, welcome NEWBIE!"

I don't think we need to try and use the term Newbie in a manner that seems demeaning, obviously some folks need to communicate in a less hostile manner, this would be one way of developing some interest in the traditional side of MLing, many posts on this thread might turn some away from the traditional side if those claiming to be its supporters find the need to attack others personaly, again even the suggestion that one ,might be a bit non traditional or less than fully so is taken as a slam which is not the case, being less than "traditional" or using modern stuff is not a bad thing and does not warrent defensive posturing and hostile comments IMHO

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Yeah, you're right! Up to now I've never used the term "Newbie" as a put-down, and I probably shouldn't have in this case either. Generally I use it among friends and therefore it is taken from which it came--merely as a gesture such as taking one underneath one's wing. Said with affection towards the goal of teaching someone new to the hobby how to do well and be safe.

I guess the tone of the other post landed on my last nerve. I apologize if I was taken the wrong way. I'm just not used to such inflammatory postings on this wonderful escape from the drudgery of my everyday existence.

May we both have continued success teaching the old ways to the youngsters of the next generation

Dave

 

[tg]

"May we both have continued success teaching the old ways to the youngsters of the next generation"

I agree!

 

[zrifleman]

To get back on track---I rarely see any modern inlines at our local club except at sight in days just before hunting season. Over the past year there is more interest in traditional ML's. There is a monthly ML shoot that is well attended by traditionals. Funny---you don't see a monthly shoot for modern ML's??? Since Tred Barta is out of action maybe Jim Shockey would step up and do a traditional ML hunt? Just kidding---I don't think he has the guts.

 

[bigmedicinewolf]

By suggesting that my length of time as a registered member somehow disqualifies my opinions as valid, you simply expose yourself as a fool who underestimates others or overestimates himself.
By suggesting debate does not occur on this forum or is prohibited, exposes you as either a hypocrit or delusional, I'll let you decide which description best fits. Perhaps you should research the definition of "debate".
You called out tg by attacking his personal opinion about who the enemy really is. So far you have only proven his definition of the "enemy".
Lastly, I am most certainly not a gentleman. I would like to add that this detour from the original post was actually quite helpful. Is traditional ML'ing on the upswing? Probably not. Why? Like too many hobbies and pursuits before it, a select group of individuals tries to lay a claim of ownership upon it. They seek to preserve their own personal definition of that hobby or interest without regard to the larger population of enthusiests who share in that pursuit.
There have been several threads on this forum about attracting new members to the ranks of ML'ing and as someone who is new to the world of ML'ing, your recruitment efforts leave alot to be dedired. The hobby of traditional ML'ing is especially closed to outsiders. This forum has many members who will not hesitate to attack someone's opinion if that opinion does not match their own. Ultimately, you guys can do what you want because it makes no difference to those of us not in the "inner circle of mystical black powder wisdom", but the next time someone asks, "Why aren't more young people coming into this sport?", perhaps you should look in the mirror. Otherwise, this will be another "fad" that ends up like the Rubix Cube and board games. But then again, what do I know, I'm only your target audience.

 

[nkbj]

INCOMING!

 

[larry wv]

Bad manners won't get you very far in life. It seems like you want to stir instead of help retain intrest in trad BP shooting. Hope thats not the case. Larry

 

[ebiggs1]

Not addressed to you Claude, just using you as a neutral person.

This should be broken into two different categories. Is “Authentic Traditional Muzzle loading” on the upswing and is “Traditional Muzzle loading” on the upswing? And the answer to the first is no. The answer to the latter is probably not. I don’t know when exactly you lose the term “newbie” but I guess I still am, as I am learning all the time. You know this problem does not exist on the other forums just here on the flintlock forum. I know when I just started and I was having my problems, I was told by some, here, my new TC Hawken flintlock would never shoot right. Because it was made with inferior parts by idiots that only wanted to get to the end of their shift and go home. Those people were wrong and I probably don’t value their advice today as much as some of the other forum users. It was a ”˜rocky’ beginning.
I am a firm believer that the more folks we get involved into flintlock shooting the better for all of us. Authentic Traditional or just Traditional, we need to encourage not discourage.
EB

 

[PreglerD]

By suggesting that my length of time as a registered member somehow disqualifies my opinions as valid, you simply expose yourself as a fool who underestimates others or overestimates himself.
By suggesting debate does not occur on this forum or is prohibited, exposes you as either a hypocrit or delusional, I'll let you decide which description best fits. Perhaps you should research the definition of "debate".
You called out tg by attacking his personal opinion about who the enemy really is. So far you have only proven his definition of the "enemy".
Lastly, I am most certainly not a gentleman. I would like to add that this detour from the original post was actually quite helpful. Is traditional ML'ing on the upswing? Probably not. Why? Like too many hobbies and pursuits before it, a select group of individuals tries to lay a claim of ownership upon it. They seek to preserve their own personal definition of that hobby or interest without regard to the larger population of enthusiests who share in that pursuit.
There have been several threads on this forum about attracting new members to the ranks of ML'ing and as someone who is new to the world of ML'ing, your recruitment efforts leave alot to be dedired. The hobby of traditional ML'ing is especially closed to outsiders. This forum has many members who will not hesitate to attack someone's opinion if that opinion does not match their own. Ultimately, you guys can do what you want because it makes no difference to those of us not in the "inner circle of mystical black powder wisdom", but the next time someone asks, "Why aren't more young people coming into this sport?", perhaps you should look in the mirror. Otherwise, this will be another "fad" that ends up like the Rubix Cube and board games. But then again, what do I know, I'm only your target audience.

Sir, with all respect, your postings are not fitting very well here in this thread. Seems to me as if you are on the warpath against all friends and supporters of traditional ML. If you have no interest to help the case then please stay calm. :shake:


Back to the topic.

Here in southern bavaria and in many parts of Germany these modern ML are not much seen because they are considered modern firearms by law and so you need a permission to get them. This is not the case for the traditional single shot sidelocks. They are free to get for persons of 18 years. So all ML target shooters use the traditional ML. Most of the ML hunters, their number is increasing through the years, see in the possibility of using trad. ML for hunting a good way to have a free rifle which is not under the restrictons of the gunlaw like storage, carrying, etc.

Regards

Kirrmeister

 

[bkovire]

in the last 2 weeks,i have seen no used ones, and few new ones, this is in the 10 mile range of my looking. it could be a good sign that more people are getting into ml, or that the current one's just want more. all i know for sure is that i'll have to start saving up and have with me 500-700$ at all times.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

By suggesting that my length of time as a registered member somehow disqualifies my opinions as valid, you simply expose yourself as a fool who underestimates others or overestimates himself.
By suggesting debate does not occur on this forum or is prohibited, exposes you as either a hypocrit or delusional, I'll let you decide which description best fits. Perhaps you should research the definition of "debate".
You called out tg by attacking his personal opinion about who the enemy really is. So far you have only proven his definition of the "enemy".
Lastly, I am most certainly not a gentleman. I would like to add that this detour from the original post was actually quite helpful. Is traditional ML'ing on the upswing? Probably not. Why? Like too many hobbies and pursuits before it, a select group of individuals tries to lay a claim of ownership upon it. They seek to preserve their own personal definition of that hobby or interest without regard to the larger population of enthusiests who share in that pursuit.
There have been several threads on this forum about attracting new members to the ranks of ML'ing and as someone who is new to the world of ML'ing, your recruitment efforts leave alot to be dedired. The hobby of traditional ML'ing is especially closed to outsiders. This forum has many members who will not hesitate to attack someone's opinion if that opinion does not match their own. Ultimately, you guys can do what you want because it makes no difference to those of us not in the "inner circle of mystical black powder wisdom", but the next time someone asks, "Why aren't more young people coming into this sport?", perhaps you should look in the mirror. Otherwise, this will be another "fad" that ends up like the Rubix Cube and board games. But then again, what do I know, I'm only your target audience.

Jason,

I do not represent everybody on this forum, as I'm my own man. Congratulations on posting for the third time in eleven months. Unfortunately it too seems to appear as a put-down. Only you've widened your aim and shotgunned quite a few innocent folks. Folks here form opinions of others based upon the "flavor and intent" of what new members write. It is after all, all we have to go by.

I have always been helpful to new shooters in the hobby, and will continue to be so. I base my writings on real world experiences obtained in league settings with memberships in three clubs that shoot black powder. Situations with common firing lines that may contain thirty or more shooters firing simultaneously. I have helped plenty of new shooters be all they can be in our hobby. Today, for instance, I spotted for a 73 year-old semi-retired barber and helped and encouraged him to earn his first leg in making Expert in Muzzleloading Rifle Qualification. Just like in any other venue, respect is earned. As an NRA Distinguished Expert I've made many friends in the hobby, both in person and on this forum.

For some reason you're still attempting to drive a wedge between folks who share a common interest, and get involved in others affairs on their behalf. Generally speaking, this isn't tolerated. We can't see you across a table to see your body language or pick-up on the inflection of your voice. We can only go by what you've written. Can you write something nice, perhaps of a shooting experience that you've had, so that other members here would benefit or be entertained? Then I and others would be able to "read" you a little better.

If you need advice on learning to do this hobby, I'd be glad to put down my shield and have a friendly discussion. I'll take the "high road" and offer you my toll-free number so that you can call me from Vegas on my dime. What do you need help in...rifles, pistols, revolvers, shotgun, cleaning techniques, loading, storage, competitive muzzle loading (pistol or rifle), hunting, NRA Qualification Matches, et al, I'm here to help. If I personally don't know the answer, I'll point you to someone that does.

Jason, it is my hope that you'll accept this olive branch in the spirit in which it is intended. But just like Sgt. Fletcher said in the movie "The Outlaw Josey Wales", "General, don't pi$$ down my back and tell me it's rainin!"

So what do you say Jason, can we call a truce?

Dave
Official Member of the Inner Circle of Mystical Black Powder Wisdom :haha:

P.S.: I'm laughing at myself with the above line, not trying to :stir: or :dead: , so let me know if you want to chat on my dime--Dave

 

[pchwcf50110]

my father who grew up in the '50's-'60's is a product of that era ie. Weatherby magnums, high velocity, and Jack O'Conner. he always was amazed that i grew up wanting leverguns, large caliber straight wall cartridges with rims, muzzleloaders, and bows. in '97 my father bought one of the then new .50 cal Remington 700 ML's after i urged him to give ML hunting a try. he shot a few deer with it over the years. i was surprised this past fall when he phoned and told me he bought a .54 Renegade at an auction and wanted to get shooting in time for the Dec. ML season. i went out to the farm with some real black powder and after a thorough cleaning it took 3 shots to get sighted in at 75 yards. he got a couple of boxed of Maxi Hunter bullets with the rifle. after he shot a doe with his Renegade he tells me that when he runs out of the maxi bullets he wants to try roundballs. this is the only rifle he owns that doesn't have a scope on it! so at 68 years old my father has made his way to traditional styled rifles.

 

[ozark57]

Let's go shootin' :v

 

[redwing]

I recall setting by a fire one night on Louchery Creek. This is the creek running thru Friendship. This was in the spring of 1960. Friendship was some what crude back in those days. The area was mostly private farms. The buildings and parking lots of today were then farm houses and corn fields. Among our good friends was Turner Kirkland, Col. Geo. Nonte and others. We dicussed how all the old ways were going. The talk was about no young men comming into the sport Etc. But here we are today dicussing this same problem. We could have never thought of talking to 10,000 other muzzle loading fans in Cyber Space. Don't rush to get those shovels its not dead yet. :shake:

 

[smo]

Amen Brother! :thumbsup: I wish i could have been there.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I recall setting by a fire one night on Louchery Creek. This is the creek running thru Friendship. This was in the spring of 1960. Friendship was some what crude back in those days. The area was mostly private farms. The buildings and parking lots of today were then farm houses and corn fields. Among our good friends was Turner Kirkland, Col. Geo. Nonte and others. We dicussed how all the old ways were going. The talk was about no young men comming into the sport Etc. But here we are today dicussing this same problem. We could have never thought of talking to 10,000 other muzzle loading fans in Cyber Space. Don't rush to get those shovels its not dead yet. :shake:

Fantastic line! Wish I'd thought of it :thumbsup: and a great story! Thanks for the picture in my head!

Dave

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Tell your Dad welcome to the Dark Side! If there's any way we can help, just let us know!

Enjoy him while he's still around--no matter what he wants to shoot! I lost my Dad when I was only 23.........


Make smoke & feel proud!

Dave