kings mountain rifles

[54ball]

To add to this discussion, there is a rifle in the Tennessee State Museum that is claimed to be the "Sweet Lips" rifle that was carried by King's Mountain patriot Robert Young (http://www.tn4me.org/images/upload/File/sweetlipsrifle.jpg)
More here: )Sweet Lips)

Not withstanding the above, I have a good friend who will remain nameless so as to not involve him in any controversy, but he is a student of history, and believes that the rifle in the Tennessee Museum is too late of a rifle to have been at the battle at Kings Mountain. He and I have often discussed the fact that artifacts get passed down in families, with lots of stories based on little fact, and he is of the opinion that is what has happened with the rifle in question. He knew of several other instances where an artifact in a museum has been misidentified as to provenance. Some allege this gun is a "Bean" longrifle, but while I have not extensively researched the Bean line of gun-builders and the rifles they built, I believe they for the most part came later in time than the timeframe to have been used at King's Mountain.

Lots of history out there yet to still be researched, and new discoveries make. Appreciate discussions such as this one on this forum.

Wishbone65102

We the think of the “ classic “ Bean Rifle as a 1820s iron mounted rifle but the Beans go way back. William Bean was one of the first white men to settle Overthemountain 1760s. William Bean was reportedly a iron smith/gunsmith.
It’s possible that the rifles William Bean made were iron mounted.

A decade after Kings Mountain, we have the Jos Bogle Rifle. The Bogle exists today. The attributed maker died in 1811. Lore states the rifle was used in the Cherokee War of 1794.
What is interesting about the Bogle, it is iron mounted but the iron mounts show a PA style influence. While not quite....the trigger guard almost looks like a iron PA style guard from Track of the Wolf.!

Back to the Beans....The Beans are connected to the Russel and Bull families. Jessie Bean, I assume Williams son was also a gunsmith and led a squad of Riflemen at The Battle of Horseshoe Bend (1814). Likely he was part of Col William Russels mounted spies. Also part of Russel’s spies was David Crockett but he was furloughed at the time of Horseshoe Bend.
George Russell was Col Russell’s son and was the companion with Crocket on many scouting missions. George Russel was the basis for Georgie Russell (Buddy Ebson) in the Disney series.....In real life George was about 16 during the Creek War of 1813-14.
What does this have to do with Kings Mountain?....Crocket’s father was an Overthemountainman at KM.

Now the Beans, Bulls and Russell’s are linked but here is where it gets really interesting....Through the Bulls there is a link to the Lauk rifle building family. John Phillip Beck’s wife was a Lauk. John Bull as a youth allegedly went to PA to study rifle building. Many say he could have studied under John Beck. Early John Bull rifles look a lot like a Beck. The stock shape is uncanny.

I hope you can see a spider web of connections here. David Crockett’s first rifle is reportedly of the York school of PA. Again, a link back to PA.

Back to the Bogle Rifle.....Now the Bogle is not a “Cumberland School” per say but it is interesting. The fact that there is a Cumberland School is profound. Thomas Simpson, the Humble Brothers....The Humbles have a possible link to the builders of the Canoe and Feather rifles built in the Shenandoah Valley 1760s....
If you look at Cumberlands.... they seem later than they are. I’ve seen a Thomas Simpson that looked...1820ish but on the box was 1803.

Back to Kings Mountain.....The key to a Kings Mountain Rifle lies on The Great Wagon Road. From Lancaster, to Winchester, through the Valley of Virginia down to Watauga. Any rifle found or made along that route prior to 1780 is a good “Kings Mountain Rifle”.

 

[Wishbone65102]

We the think of the “ classic “ Bean Rifle as a 1820s iron mounted rifle but the Beans go way back. William Bean was one of the first white men to settle Overthemountain 1760s. William Bean was reportedly a iron smith/gunsmith.
It’s possible that the rifles William Bean made were iron mounted.

A decade after Kings Mountain, we have the Jos Bogle Rifle. The Bogle exists today. The attributed maker died in 1811. Lore states the rifle was used in the Cherokee War of 1794.
What is interesting about the Bogle, it is iron mounted but the iron mounts show a PA style influence. While not quite....the trigger guard almost looks like a iron PA style guard from Track of the Wolf.!

Back to the Beans....The Beans are connected to the Russel and Bull families. Jessie Bean, I assume Williams son was also a gunsmith and led a squad of Riflemen at The Battle of Horseshoe Bend (1814). Likely he was part of Col William Russels mounted spies. Also part of Russel’s spies was David Crockett but he was furloughed at the time of Horseshoe Bend.
George Russell was Col Russell’s son and was the companion with Crocket on many scouting missions. George Russel was the basis for Georgie Russell (Buddy Ebson) in the Disney series.....In real life George was about 16 during the Creek War of 1813-14.
What does this have to do with Kings Mountain?....Crocket’s father was an Overthemountainman at KM.

Now the Beans, Bulls and Russell’s are linked but here is where it gets really interesting....Through the Bulls there is a link to the Lauk rifle building family. John Phillip Beck’s wife was a Lauk. John Bull as a youth allegedly went to PA to study rifle building. Many say he could have studied under John Beck. Early John Bull rifles look a lot like a Beck. The stock shape is uncanny.

I hope you can see a spider web of connections here. David Crockett’s first rifle is reportedly of the York school of PA. Again, a link back to PA.

Back to the Bogle Rifle.....Now the Bogle is not a “Cumberland School” per say but it is interesting. The fact that there is a Cumberland School is profound. Thomas Simpson, the Humble Brothers....The Humbles have a possible link to the builders of the Canoe and Feather rifles built in the Shenandoah Valley 1760s....
If you look at Cumberlands.... they seem later than they are. I’ve seen a Thomas Simpson that looked...1820ish but on the box was 1803.

Back to Kings Mountain.....The key to a Kings Mountain Rifle lies on The Great Wagon Road. From Lancaster, to Winchester, through the Valley of Virginia down to Watauga. Any rifle found or made along that route prior to 1780 is a good “Kings Mountain Rifle”.

Interesting bit of history. There is so much info out there, but there are few places where it is all in one place. Info on the longrifles of the battle of Kings Mountain is a perfect example. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Chris69]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I found this subject interesting. Robert Young, who is attributed as the owner of the “Sweet Lips” rifle in the Tennessee State Museum, is my 8th Great Grandfather. I have seen the manufacture of the rifle stated to be Jacob Dickert of PA by some so-called “experts”. I know nothing about historical firearms makers so this really means little to me. I do find it interesting that there is a thread on a modern Internet forum about one of my 18th century ancestors. I hope to get to Nashville some day and see the rifle for myself.

 

[oldwood]

A well written and researched article written by the famous Wallace Gusler , Colonial Williamsburg Gunsmith , and researcher wrote an article based on an inventory of a colonial gunsmith ROBERT MILBURN. The article is fromthe Sept. , 2003 issue of Muzzle Blasts magazine. It has all the answers spelled out by an actual 1776 article from Milburn's text. Best factual info I've seen.

 

[Dangus]

As long as the thread has been brought back up, thought I'd say howdy to my cousins out there. My 6-G grandfather is John Sevier, and my 5-G grandfather is James who was 16 when he partied with his dad at Kings Mountain.

 

[user 31232]

My great grandfather ( 6 generations back), Jeremiah Jack was in that battle. A few years ago the National Park Service set up a monument to him.

"Jeremiah Jack Sr. fought in the OCTOBER 7, 1780 Revolutionary Battle of Kings Mountain, South Carolina and Boyd's Creek, Tennessee. He fought under the command of his friend, neighbor and fellow church member Governor John Sevier, the first governor of Tennessee. Jeremiah Jack Sr. also served as a Justice of Knoxville, Tennessee."

In doing some family research I found that my ancestors surname Brank and Henry participated in Kings Mountain in particular the Branks! So honored to have family such as these!