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Matchlocks from India
- Thread starter ando009
- Start date
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wallgunner
40 Cal.
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Yes they did, and luckily they kept them there!
Muskeg Stomper
50 Cal.
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You'll find lots of folks on the forum that love them and just as many who hate them. All are sometimes REAL VOCAL about giving their opinion. The rumors about Indian-made guns being unsafe are all based around one incident of the barrel of an Indian reproduction musket rupturing. Tests on that gun indicate that the gun was extremely dirty (like NEVER had been cleaned) causing a serious bore obstruction and may have been misloaded to boot. The lab found nothing wrong with either the metal or the manufacture of the musket. I'm sure others will pipe in and tell you that they heard from friends of friends of a guy who was there tell you that every India gun will blow up.
That all said, fit and finish are sometimes lacking; wrong type wood for the stocks; stocks thicker than originals; and generally not very good representations of the originals are all probably accurate statements.
These are all my personal opinions for you to accept or discard as you please. So be it...I'm not into online arguments just because someone disagrees with my assessment. Everyone has been real heated lately about any guns made in India.
That all said, fit and finish are sometimes lacking; wrong type wood for the stocks; stocks thicker than originals; and generally not very good representations of the originals are all probably accurate statements.
These are all my personal opinions for you to accept or discard as you please. So be it...I'm not into online arguments just because someone disagrees with my assessment. Everyone has been real heated lately about any guns made in India.
wallgunner
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I don't see in ando009's post were he says he new to this sport. I would not want to chase anyone from this hobbby. However, I can not with good conscience recommend a low quality gun. As Matchlock/Flintlocks go, they are the lowest quality one can buy. The price tag I believe is the driving factor in a purchase of these firearms. However, if you are going to shoot this weapon, then don't you want a high quality, safe firearm? If he is worried about the quality, then shouldn't that be enough to deter him? Look at TRS kits, or maybe contact John Buck. You'll pay more, but you'll have a firearm with quality parts.
Don't run from the hobby ando009, but don't make decisions on price alone either. Buy the best, you'll never be disappointed.
Don't run from the hobby ando009, but don't make decisions on price alone either. Buy the best, you'll never be disappointed.
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wonder where you could actually find documented evidence that the Indian made firearms are that dangerous seems that there are many sold, so if in fact the firearms are that bad there should be abundant proof. -would you think?
TRS as alot of nice stuff. But I would never recommed anybody ordering from them. Their customer service can best be described as haphazard. They bill you and charge your creditcard at once, but you have no garanti when, if ever your order will arrive. I know several who have waited a couple of years.
Best regards
Rolf
Best regards
Rolf
michaelsbagley
32 Cal.
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There is a documented case from about a year ago... The evidence was inconclusive, but from my reading seemed to indicate a barrel obstruction (Indian gun naysayers obviously read the opposite into the report).
I think if one looks around hard enough there may be a few more instances of Indian gun failures over the last few decades, but because of the changing nature of "oral tradition", I would wager the instances are VERY few, and often over-counted by the naysayers by counting different versions of the same story.
On the whole, I own a few Indian made muskets, and outside of needing to put more effort into making them fire more reliably, I have never had any problems with them (and I know many who have them and have similar experiences). That said, now that I have gotten past my initial get a musket and get it cheap and fast stage, I will not likely ever buy another Indian made musket and be saving up for a more premium made custom piece.
I don't regret buying my Indian made muskets, they got me into the hobby quicker and cheaper, and now I have something to tide me over until I can afford and wait for a better made piece.
I also don't regret having to "buy twice". If I was forced to wait the amount of time required for a custom piece (many custom builders have a several month to few year waiting list)I would likely have not bothered with the hobby and moved on and found another diversion.
So the short version is, Indian guns have their place, and are often the starting place for someone to get more interested in later obtaining a better custom made gun.
I think if one looks around hard enough there may be a few more instances of Indian gun failures over the last few decades, but because of the changing nature of "oral tradition", I would wager the instances are VERY few, and often over-counted by the naysayers by counting different versions of the same story.
On the whole, I own a few Indian made muskets, and outside of needing to put more effort into making them fire more reliably, I have never had any problems with them (and I know many who have them and have similar experiences). That said, now that I have gotten past my initial get a musket and get it cheap and fast stage, I will not likely ever buy another Indian made musket and be saving up for a more premium made custom piece.
I don't regret buying my Indian made muskets, they got me into the hobby quicker and cheaper, and now I have something to tide me over until I can afford and wait for a better made piece.
I also don't regret having to "buy twice". If I was forced to wait the amount of time required for a custom piece (many custom builders have a several month to few year waiting list)I would likely have not bothered with the hobby and moved on and found another diversion.
So the short version is, Indian guns have their place, and are often the starting place for someone to get more interested in later obtaining a better custom made gun.
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but would you think it possible that some of the American guns have had incidents also? like some of the seamless tube bbls? :idunno: not defending or accusing just asking. :surrender:
surrealpillow
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I bought an indian made matchlock about a year ago and was not very impressed with it. It doesn't feel sturdy at all and the finish isn't very pretty. The wood started flaking off in one spot. It's nice to hang on the wall but that's about all i use it for. I feel like you get what you pay for, although I'm sure some vendors of Indian made guns have better products than others. I'm now getting ready to buy an American made matchlock. My recommendation would be to spend a little more and get something much nicer. That's what i wish I had done. Hope this helps. good luck!
wallgunner
40 Cal.
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Trucker,
I've heard all the horror stories that everybody else has about the India guns. The supposed bursting barrel, inadequate stock material, bad geometry of the lock, and the list goes on.
A lot of people buy these guns, and then have work done on them, and then they are happy to report to forums like this one, that they finally have a "good" gun. But they could have had a "better" or even a "great" gun if they shopped around and saved there money.
I think the fact that we are having this discussion over and over on this forum, and other similar forums, goes to show that people are worried about the quality and safety of these guns. Personally, I would never buy a gun with such publicity.
Another post asked if the same thing could happen to an American gun with a tubing for the barrel. I believe it could. I don't think a barrel should be made of anything but solid stock. My personal choice.
I've heard all the horror stories that everybody else has about the India guns. The supposed bursting barrel, inadequate stock material, bad geometry of the lock, and the list goes on.
A lot of people buy these guns, and then have work done on them, and then they are happy to report to forums like this one, that they finally have a "good" gun. But they could have had a "better" or even a "great" gun if they shopped around and saved there money.
I think the fact that we are having this discussion over and over on this forum, and other similar forums, goes to show that people are worried about the quality and safety of these guns. Personally, I would never buy a gun with such publicity.
Another post asked if the same thing could happen to an American gun with a tubing for the barrel. I believe it could. I don't think a barrel should be made of anything but solid stock. My personal choice.
My view is that we live in an age of "instance gratification"
I want a matchlock to shot.. can't build my own.
So, Buy the least expensive one I can find.That is in stock. This is a good point..IN STOCK
Then I can shoot it NOW.
Having waited for almost a year for my JB.. and paying more then double the cost of the Indian one.
I feel it was worth the wait.. The delay was my fault anyway. JB will not take a year to build you a gun.
The cost..well all the parts on the weapon are handmade, by JB and he needs to be able to make a living. The barrel might well be DOM tubing.. I don't care. Have used American made DOM barrels before.. It's the Chinese stuff that sucks.
It's a matchlock smooth-bore.. not a high pressure weapon.
Bottom line is buy it if you want.. If you find you like shooting it.. You will end up buying a better one
I want a matchlock to shot.. can't build my own.
So, Buy the least expensive one I can find.That is in stock. This is a good point..IN STOCK
Then I can shoot it NOW.
Having waited for almost a year for my JB.. and paying more then double the cost of the Indian one.
I feel it was worth the wait.. The delay was my fault anyway. JB will not take a year to build you a gun.
The cost..well all the parts on the weapon are handmade, by JB and he needs to be able to make a living. The barrel might well be DOM tubing.. I don't care. Have used American made DOM barrels before.. It's the Chinese stuff that sucks.
It's a matchlock smooth-bore.. not a high pressure weapon.
Bottom line is buy it if you want.. If you find you like shooting it.. You will end up buying a better one
Last edited by a moderator:
wallgunner
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Well put!
A friend of mine has an Indian made blunderbuss, and it has given me enough reasons to not buy an Indian gun.
The main problem with it is not the barrel, lock, or hardware, but the stock. In fact, the barrel is probably the best part of the whole gun. The fitment was mediocre, and the lock took a bit of tweaking to spark reliably. Unfortunately, the wood they use is ill suited to a gun stock. It cracked while firing blank loads.
Sure, other stocks can crack as well, but after examining it, it was also poorly designed, having the barrel secured via screws into the stock rather than a bolt through the trigger plate, which would be a much stronger setup. Even if this had been done, the wood they use would be far inferior to what you can get from any of the builder suppliers typically referenced on this site. It could be restocked, but by the time you do that, you'd have as much invested in it as if you had just bought a better gun in the first place.
That being said, it was servicable for a couple of years before the stock cracked, which is repairable, and it is a functional gun. I just don't care for the quality of the materials used, and don't consider the price of them to be significantly cheaper than a better gun, which is ultimately the main reason anyone chooses to buy one of these.
Sometimes people want something immediately, or don't want to save up a little more. Understandable, especially in the American culture that most of us live in. Everyone has to determine what is of value to themselves. To me, a little wait and much better quality, even at a higher cost, is of much more value than immediate gratification.
This doesn't mean that I think buying a mass produced gun is a bad idea. Most of the guns I own are mass produced, from Thompson and Pedersoli, and they have their tradeoffs as well, but I just don't see the value in the Indian stuff anymore, since I've been able to examine first hand the quality of their product.
I really want a wheellock, and I'd consider a mass produced one, were the only such example not an Indian gun that has had iffy reviews. Similarly, production matchlocks are scarce. If you don't want to build one yourself, there are very few options to you. I found a Miroku Japanese matchlock on an auction site a couple of years ago, though I'm still working out the firing of it (I think I need a better matchcord). Still, not everyone can find the things I've found used. Though I haven't handled any of his guns, I've spoken with John Buck, and he seems to build a very good quality gun at a very reasonable price. That's probably the route I'd choose if I were looking for a matchlock/wheellock if I wanted a good value and couldn't build it myself.
Of course, that's purely my opinion, and worth no more than what you paid for it.
The main problem with it is not the barrel, lock, or hardware, but the stock. In fact, the barrel is probably the best part of the whole gun. The fitment was mediocre, and the lock took a bit of tweaking to spark reliably. Unfortunately, the wood they use is ill suited to a gun stock. It cracked while firing blank loads.
Sure, other stocks can crack as well, but after examining it, it was also poorly designed, having the barrel secured via screws into the stock rather than a bolt through the trigger plate, which would be a much stronger setup. Even if this had been done, the wood they use would be far inferior to what you can get from any of the builder suppliers typically referenced on this site. It could be restocked, but by the time you do that, you'd have as much invested in it as if you had just bought a better gun in the first place.
That being said, it was servicable for a couple of years before the stock cracked, which is repairable, and it is a functional gun. I just don't care for the quality of the materials used, and don't consider the price of them to be significantly cheaper than a better gun, which is ultimately the main reason anyone chooses to buy one of these.
Sometimes people want something immediately, or don't want to save up a little more. Understandable, especially in the American culture that most of us live in. Everyone has to determine what is of value to themselves. To me, a little wait and much better quality, even at a higher cost, is of much more value than immediate gratification.
This doesn't mean that I think buying a mass produced gun is a bad idea. Most of the guns I own are mass produced, from Thompson and Pedersoli, and they have their tradeoffs as well, but I just don't see the value in the Indian stuff anymore, since I've been able to examine first hand the quality of their product.
I really want a wheellock, and I'd consider a mass produced one, were the only such example not an Indian gun that has had iffy reviews. Similarly, production matchlocks are scarce. If you don't want to build one yourself, there are very few options to you. I found a Miroku Japanese matchlock on an auction site a couple of years ago, though I'm still working out the firing of it (I think I need a better matchcord). Still, not everyone can find the things I've found used. Though I haven't handled any of his guns, I've spoken with John Buck, and he seems to build a very good quality gun at a very reasonable price. That's probably the route I'd choose if I were looking for a matchlock/wheellock if I wanted a good value and couldn't build it myself.
Of course, that's purely my opinion, and worth no more than what you paid for it.
Curt LaManna
40 Cal.
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I bought an Indian Made Matchlock in .75 cal.
It was my 1st one. Since then, I've fired it with 75-100 grns of 2F and it works fine and is safe.
I have also purchased a 20ga/.62 cal matchlock from Leonard Day. It cost about $1200 and IMHO, is a much better gun. The Indian made one cost about $600.
It was my 1st one. Since then, I've fired it with 75-100 grns of 2F and it works fine and is safe.
I have also purchased a 20ga/.62 cal matchlock from Leonard Day. It cost about $1200 and IMHO, is a much better gun. The Indian made one cost about $600.
