Misfire...

[Huntin_Dawg1215]

Luie, I don't you but have seen your post, I 1999 I had problems with my m/l a TC New Englander much the same as you, not firing the best. I called TC and talked with one of their techs. He told me just the same thing that everyone on here has told you to do about the cleaning step, including the step about the items that goes in where the nipple goes with the hose. ( Hot water and soap) dish soap works good, I have used a bar of Ivory even it work, I like dish soap best.

I too was worried that I would mess up this favorite gun, and it being a m/l I thought that it had to be treated different.

In 1998 I had the honor to attend two weeks of armour school at S&W where they tought us to strip their aemi-auto and revolers and repair, replace and clean them. I ask my instructor if it would hurt there semi-auto (5946) to clean it with soap and water when I detailed strip them. His reply was no that is a VERY good way to clean them I clean mine that way also and even my m/ls.

I carry a S&W AUTO EVERY DAY THAT I GO TO WORK IT IS NOT THE 5946 BUT A 4003 IT IS CLEANED WITH SOAP AND WATER. I would not use soap and water to take care of my weapon or any of the other 60 some that I take care of if I thought it would hurt them My life and the life of other poeple depend on it.

Last thing: Make sure you put oil back on the metal tha you clean with soap and water. Matel has pores and when you clean it with soap and water or any of the wonder stuff that you say you been using (Hoppes Solvent it will take the dirt, crud , and oil out of the pores.) It has to be replaced. YOU have got to do your part on cleaning you guns, you can not go half way. That is why I told you, to clean it better each time you clean and every time.

This is .02 worth of MHO.

 

[jethro224]

Luie,

This is THE LAST TIME I will make this offer;

Please have your Dad give me a call. If you guys have the place to shoot, I will haul my stuff to your place and help you to make that gun shoot reliably. If you don't have the place, I'll give you directions to here. Send me a PT for my phone number. I'm off every weekend.
I'm not just some guy on the internet. I'm real, live, willing to help, and not that far away.

Otherwise, good luck. :surrender:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I can't take my gun apart to clean the barrel out from both ends. It doesn't come out like that.

What is your gun?
A Traditions? A CVA? kentucky,hawkin. Most have a specific name. What is it?

You want my phone# ? I'm a real person, and I've been messin with BP guns for only 25 years,,
too bad your dad doesn't know about BP guns,,

It is a traditions kentucky .50 cal caplock like I mentioned in my first post. I haven't been using water to clean and I am fearful of trying because just using it once could most definitely be the ruin of my great conditioned gun that I bought for practically a steal but I want to use it for quite a while.

The ONLY thing your gun is conditioned for is to FAIL! Fail to fire that is! This thread has proved to ALL who have tried to help you from the beginning (probably the day you registered on this forum) that you haven't listened to any of the advice on cleaning the rifle. Until you do, you might as well throw the gun in the dumpster, for it will be a miracle if it ever goes bang again. Furthermore, if you don't take care of it properly, IMHO you don't deserve to be using it. For a lapse in cleanliness could result in hang-fires and a lapse in safety. If you're not doing what we tell you as far as cleaning the rifle goes, only God knows what else you're doing wrong.

Bottom line: CLEAN THE DAMN RIFLE WITH HOT WATER & SOAP AND PUMP IT TILL YOUR ARMS HURT OR JUST THROW THE PIECE OF CRAP AWAY NOW!

There, I wrote what EVERYBODY ELSE was thinking!

Maybe there is some chain-yanking going-on?

Dave

Sir, my gun is no piece of crap :cursing: . It is my favorite gun in my cabinet. If it is such a piece of crap how come I dropped a doe from 50 yards with it this year? People like you are starting to chase people away from this sport. YOU need to understand that it's not a good thing to listen to whatever people on the internet say all the time. Yes, I know that there is probably a 99% chance here that you guys are telling me the right thing to do. But sometimes you can get burned that way and my favorite gun get ruined.

Louie,

As of right now, your favorite gun already is ruined. That's if it's left in it's current condition. It's up to YOU to do something about it! Before it's a solid plug that requires an expensive repair to remedy the situation that could cost more than the rifle is worth!

Until your rifle is cleaned properly it will remain "out of service" as an unreliable and potentially dangerous misfiring piece of (insert expletive)! Now I'm not trying to baby you. I'm telling you like it is, and you just have to "MAN-UP" and deal with it! It doesn't matter how much meat is in the freezer or how many X's at a million yards the gun WAS capable of. In its' current condition it MAY NEVER FIRE AGAIN! So, that begs the question, "What are YOU going to do about it?"

Since you have a computer, you can look-up any number of sources or suppliers to the hobby who will all tell you to USE HOT WATER AND SOAP TO CLEAN THE DAMN RIFLE. Lots of small, family-owned businesses that make a living selling these guns and the materials to properly maintain them will all tell you the same thing!

At least two of us on this thread have volunteered to personally communicate with you via telephone. We do this for the sake of your safety, the safety of everyone around you and for the good of the sport. We do this so as to enable us to "get into your head" so we can understand where you're coming from and to allay your fears. I have a toll-free number, so it's even on my dime! So send me a PT and I'll give it to you so you can make the call (with Dad listening-in).

Nuff said!

Dave

 

[Pork Chop]

I can't take my gun apart to clean the barrel out from both ends. It doesn't come out like that. As far as soap and water goes my dad won't let me do that if I did use black powder because he believes that it would rust up the gun and the people on this forum might not know what their talking about because they're just people on the internet.

I don't know what model Traditions rifle you have, but it does not matter. I think that you may be misunderstanding the barrel removal to clean it out. You don't need to pull the breech plug. You should be able to pull the barrel out and then clean it following the manufacturer's instructions. Regarding your father, he is trying to protect you and that is OK. The reality is that in this case he is wrong. Just go to the Traditions website and download the manual for your rifle - I bet money that it talks to a bucket of soapy water. Here is the link:
http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/ownersManuals.asp

Read it through and see what the manufacturer says.

 

[bwhoffman]

Luie,

This is THE LAST TIME I will make this offer;

Please have your Dad give me a call. If you guys have the place to shoot, I will haul my stuff to your place and help you to make that gun shoot reliably. If you don't have the place, I'll give you directions to here. Send me a PT for my phone number. I'm off every weekend.
I'm not just some guy on the internet. I'm real, live, willing to help, and not that far away.

Otherwise, good luck. :surrender:

If a person saw this and chose not to act on it, I would be doing a renaming ceremony at Rondy time.
That name would be "fool".

No harm intended here, but Louie, YOU NEED TO CONTACT HIM! this is free education for you and your dad.
I strongly doubt an offer like this is going to come around again soon.

 

[David W.]

Luie,

This is THE LAST TIME I will make this offer;

Please have your Dad give me a call. If you guys have the place to shoot, I will haul my stuff to your place and help you to make that gun shoot reliably. If you don't have the place, I'll give you directions to here. Send me a PT for my phone number. I'm off every weekend.
I'm not just some guy on the internet. I'm real, live, willing to help, and not that far away.

Otherwise, good luck. :surrender:

If a person saw this and chose not to act on it, I would be doing a renaming ceremony at Rondy time.
That name would be "fool".

No harm intended here, but Louie, YOU NEED TO CONTACT HIM! this is free education for you and your dad.
I strongly doubt an offer like this is going to come around again soon.

Luie, I do not mean to be rude, but if you do not believe us internet people, why do you keep asking questions? I, with other people have tried to help you. If you do not believe us, then so be it.

Some of us are thinking you are yanking our chains. Yes or no?

 

[tv_racin_fan]

Jethro I been shooting muzzleloaders for some time. If you lived close to me I'd invite you to come and shoot with me and show me how it is done or I'd come to you.

I have offered a time or two and while they say sure I'll take that offer not once has it been done.

 

[Leatherbark]

Luie........You dont need to take the barrel out of the stock to clean with water. Use your jag (you do have a jag?) and use a sloppy wet patch and shove it down the bore. Put a little in the bore first so when you push down the wet patch it will shove the water out the nipple (may want to remove nipple first). Replace dirty (very dirty) patch and repeat.............When its clean enough to your liking use dry patches........Then take some alcohol......(I like "Heet" in the yellow bottle) or use the 91% rubbing alcohol and pour a little down the bore and take a alcohol wetted patch and rub the bore to remove any moisture. When the alcohol is dry then oil the bore slightly before storing the rifle....................Check the gun for rust a few days later and ever so often in the summmer................Dont get the alcohol on the guns finish. WHen your using a sloppy wet patch you may want to hold a rag around the barrel near the muzzle to keep the water off of the finish


These aint the best cleaning methods for your gun but it should get you back to shootin.

If you have to use Pyrodex try the "P" or pistol version..........It gets down to the nipple better...
.........Take all of these guys advice. Everyone here is being sincere with you and your father.......................Bob

 

[John Wasmuth]

Louie, these guys re all straight shooters and wouldnt stear you in the wrong direction, ever. ESPCIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO YOUNG PEOPLE GETTING INVOLVED WITH TRADITIONAL WAYS!
I been shooting these things for 46 years, near 47 now and we always clean them with HOT WATER! All the marvel mystry junk in the world wont help yer rifle if you dont clean it right and water is the only way to get all the crud out of it. Go back and read what these guys have writen on these pages and follow their instructions. You'll be glad you did.

 

[poordevil]

The nipple on my Parker-Hale is the original and is 36 years old. I have shot over 200 lb of lead out of that thing and took a buffalo in 2007 using that nipple.

If the nipple will not let the cap fit right, that will cause a problem

P

 

[Zonie]

How do you clean a gun with water if you can't take the barrel off? I am going to clean my pistol that way next time I go shooting. Then if I get it cleaned with no problems then next time I'll bring my old beater .45 kasnar and clean that with water. Is there a way to clean a gun without removing the barrel using water? I don't want to have to take my gun apart every time because I have heard from people on the forum that own traditions kentuckys that removing the barrel is a bear. Also is there any specific soap to use when cleaning?

I agree with the others who suggested the Cleaning Kit which consists of a small brass fitting that screws into the nipple hole and a length of clear plastic tubing.
Track of the Wolf sells the Percussion type for about $4. See this link for details
CLEANING ADAPTER FOR PERCUSSION GUNS
You would have to buy some 3/16 inch tubing at your local hardware store.
They also have a flintlock C clamp style for flintlocks but it costs about $18.
Dixie Gunworks says you will need a 6 mm X 1 mm threaded adapter (and nipples).

If you want to clean your rifle without removing the barrel the first thing to remember is you don't want a lot of water to run down between the barrel and the stock.

To keep this from happening lay the gun horizontally on something that will hold it barrel down, stock up. With the stock on top, water cannot get down into the stock.

You should wrap a piece of absorbant cloth around the muzzle area because when you start running the wet patched cleaning jag in and out of the barrel it will pump a lot of water out the muzzle.
That's good by the way.

Also, if you use some power with your strokes the water will be forced rapidly thru the breech plugs flame channel and it will literally blow away any fouling that has accumulated in there.
Well.....I should say that after you've run a wet pipe cleaner down thru the flame channel to clean out the oily fouling that is in there now.
After that oily stuff is gone, in the future, the soapy waters high velocity as it is pumped will clean out any 'dry' fouling that is in there from your future shooting.

Also, while your guns nipple is out, give it a good soaking in the soapy water.
I think you will be amazed at how easy it is to wipe off the fouling.

Now, after your gun is cleaned, don't forget to run a lot of dry patches down the bore to dry it.
Also run a few oily patches down the bore to lightly oil it so it doesn't rust while it's sitting in your closet.
Most folks will say that you should not use a petroleum based oil in your bore (although for your lock is is ok to use).
The reason for this is if your gun has a petroleum oil in the bore and it isn't removed before you shoot your gun, the black powder or Pyrodex fouling will be very hard and it will hurt the accuracy of your gun.
The answer to this is to use either a vegetable oil like Olive oil or Castor oil thinned with alcohol.
Birchwood Caseys Barricade is a petroueum product but it drys after a few hours leaving such a thin coating that this hard fouling will not develop.
It is also an excellent rust preventive.

 

[luieb45]

I basically told my dad today that I will be cleaning with soapy water and he didn't say much. I had convinced him by showing all these gun companies and the t/c manual saying that it is the recommended way to clean a gun. What I am going to do is buy one of them things that attaches through where the nipple goes and has the little tube attached to it. I emailed barrows off the forum and asked how he used to clean my gun and this was what he did so it makes sense. So here's how I am going to go about cleaning my gun. After I am done shooting for the day I will clean the barrel like how I've been cleaning it with butch's black powder bore shine then go home and dod the thing with the bucket and the tube attached to the nipple and running the jag through. I do, however have another question for you guys. Sorry if I sounded like a smart mouthed kid but I was just trying to not screw up my gun. How hot of water are we talking here? Should it be like boiling or just more on the warm order? And from what I understand just dish soap will work? Oh, and by the way I have been declining Jethro here for the reason that I really didn't want to invite someone I haven't met to come shoot at my grandpa's farm which my grandpa probably wouldn't be ok with. Once the basketball season ends in a month I am going to become a member of the hancock county gun club and then it is a definite possibility that I can invite him as my guest to come shoot with me and show me the ropes. Once again I am sorry for the dumb questions and no I was not trying to yank your chain. I just had the mind set that water and guns don't mix. But come to think of it whenever you go hunting with a blued barrel on any type of modern gun in the rain and you don't immediately dry the gun you don't run into problems at all and I never have. Also upon drying the gun with the ramrod and cleaning jag, is that all you have to dry or what do you do with the part under the nipple in the powder chamber? Lucas

 

[Zonie]

Dish washing detergent is fine.

There is some debate about the temperature of the water but I think most will agree that it should be just hot enough to feel very warm to your hand but not burn it.

Many, myself included feel that really hot water, like over 180 degrees F will often cause a "flash rust" to form in your clean, unoiled barrel.
This happens within a few seconds.

The slightly cooler water I suggested does not seem to do this.

As for the water in the breech area, some folks spray some WD40 down the barrel.
This stuff is a Water Displacing (hence the WD) oil that will creep into the smallest places and push the water out. That is what it was originally invented to do.
It also provides protection to those areas but it is a good idea to use a cleaning patch down the bore to prevent it from building up over time.

As for protecting the barrel in the rain, many have found that good old Johnsons Paste Wax or one of the newer Clear Coat Car Waxes will protect your barrel from raindrops and from handling.

 

[luieb45]

Dish washing detergent is fine.

There is some debate about the temperature of the water but I think most will agree that it should be just hot enough to feel very warm to your hand but not burn it.

Many, myself included feel that really hot water, like over 180 degrees F will often cause a "flash rust" to form in your clean, unoiled barrel.
This happens within a few seconds.

The slightly cooler water I suggested does not seem to do this.

As for the water in the breech area, some folks spray some WD40 down the barrel.
This stuff is a Water Displacing (hence the WD) oil that will creep into the smallest places and push the water out. That is what it was originally invented to do.
It also provides protection to those areas but it is a good idea to use a cleaning patch down the bore to prevent it from building up over time.

As for protecting the barrel in the rain, many have found that good old Johnsons Paste Wax or one of the newer Clear Coat Car Waxes will protect your barrel from raindrops and from handling.

So I am guessing that after you do the WD 40 thing it'd be a good idea to store the rifle down to make sure everything gets out of that area. You know that can of canned air that you clean computer keyboards and electronics with, would that help to dry the gun out by putting the little straw in the nipple. Would that work? I am saying that it would come into work after the WD 40. It's too bad that I won't be able to shoot my muzzleloader for a couple of weeks though to try this new advice that you guys have given to me.

 

[bwhoffman]

somebody needs to make a video of cleaning your gunas we all are trying to describe! Pictures/video are easily a 1000 words :wink:

 

[fredrader]

Ok,Here we go........
Get a 5gal bucked
Fill about half full with hot tap water with a little dish soap...
Remove brl from stock...
Leave nipple in or take it out either way works.
Stick breech end in the bucket...
Take ramrod with Jag and wet cleaning patch...
Run the cleaning patch down the brl leaving the breech in the bucket...Keep pushing the patch all the way down till you hit the bottom and pulling it almost all the way back out..Keep pushing and pulling till the patch comes out clean..The soap water will clean the brl and the patch..
After the patch comes out clean remove the brl from the bucket..Turn the brl muzzle down and pour out the water..
I take rubbing alcohol and pour some down the brl while I keep my finger over the nipple and fill the brl up a few inches with the alcohol..I then take and while keeping my finger over the nipple with my other hand I place a finger over the muzzle and slosh the alcohol back and forth thru the entire brl and then dump it out..You can stand the brl muzzle down and let it dry..I remove the nipple and put a drop of oil on the threads...
Then oil the brl inside and out with whatever you want to use..Put the brl back on the stock and you are done..
You can remove the lock and clean it with a rag with soap and water then dry it and oil it then re-install it..

 

[jethro224]

I basically told my dad today that I will be cleaning with soapy water and he didn't say much. I had convinced him by showing all these gun companies and the t/c manual saying that it is the recommended way to clean a gun. What I am going to do is buy one of them things that attaches through where the nipple goes and has the little tube attached to it. I emailed barrows off the forum and asked how he used to clean my gun and this was what he did so it makes sense. So here's how I am going to go about cleaning my gun. After I am done shooting for the day I will clean the barrel like how I've been cleaning it with butch's black powder bore shine then go home and dod the thing with the bucket and the tube attached to the nipple and running the jag through.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :grin: I bet you'll be surprised at the crud that still comes out the first time. That's definitely going to help.

How hot of water are we talking here? Should it be like boiling or just more on the warm order? And from what I understand just dish soap will work?

Cold will work. Warm will work better, mostly 'cause it's more pleasant to get on ya. Dish soap is good, and it doesn't take very much!

Also upon drying the gun with the ramrod and cleaning jag, is that all you have to dry or what do you do with the part under the nipple in the powder chamber?

I use a .36 caliber brush with a patch on it to clean and dry the patent breech in my GPR. A pipe cleaner will do for the flash channel.

Oh, and by the way I have been declining Jethro here for the reason that I really didn't want to invite someone I haven't met to come shoot at my grandpa's farm which my grandpa probably wouldn't be ok with. Once the basketball season ends in a month I am going to become a member of the hancock county gun club and then it is a definite possibility that I can invite him as my guest to come shoot with me and show me the ropes.

Heck Luie, Gramps can shoot with us too. I'm friendly. Bring some cousins. Even your Mom, your mailman and your preacher if you like :haha:
I'll be looking forward to that invite. If I could see exactly what you're doing and show you how I'm doing it, I know we could get that rifle shootin' every time. No hangfires either.

 

[tv_racin_fan]

I know what ya mean bout cleanin a firearm with water.

I didn't have any silly notions when I got my first one so when the manual said clean it with water I did it and I never had an issue with it. When I got my revolver first time I cleaned it I dropped the cylinder down in some water and cleaned er up good. I happen to be chattin online and when I mentioned I was cleanin my revolver in the kitchen sink couple guys asked me what sort of fool I was. One of em shut up when I told him it was black powder and thats how the manual said to clean it but the other guy still can't quite understand it.

I have a two liter coke bottle and I clean my rifles in the bath tub (my barrels come off as I have half stocked plains rifles if I didn't I would get one of those tube things and still clean in the bathtub). You can use as hot of water as you like but cold water will work just fine and like Zonie said to hot and it might flash rust, I have seen that but it generally wipes right off so I don't let that bother me BUT get it in the bore could be a problem. I run water in it and change the water about twice then rinse until it is for sure clean. I generally run a pipe cleaner or three in the clean out to dry the ignition channel and dry patches down the bore until I know it is dry (you could also use a hair dryer or a heat gun if ya wanted, some guys use the burner on thier gas stove). Then a bit of some sort of BP lube on a patch to lube the bore and some on a pipe cleaner for the ignition channel and call it good. Being ex military I generally clean three times in a week when I aint gonna be shooting for a month or more and after the first water cleanin I use a BP solvent and dont have to take the barrel off for the subsequent cleanings but you always should use water that first cleaning. Some guys swear by window cleaning solution instead of dish washing soap. Some guys swear by moose milk (water-alcohol-murphys oil soap) but honestly water all by itself will get the job done. Ballistol is a good lube for after cleanin or plain ole mineral oil, (you could use olive oil or crisco or lard but they can go rancid) something other than a petroleum product is best because the petroleum products and any residue will form an acid.

When it comes time to shoot I run as many dry patches in the bore as I think I need to and I save them for use when cleanin or swabbin. I generally pull the cleanout screw and run a dry pipe cleaner in there as well. Then when I got er all back together I will pop a couple caps to make sure the ignition channel is clear (place a patch on the muzzle or aim at some leaves or grass that will move from the cap). Them caps is cheap enough and last thing I want is a hang fire or no fire when mr buck steps out of the treeline. Listen close and you can hear the difference of a clean channel and a clogged one. If in doubt pop another cap or pull that cleanout screw.

AND for gosh sake don't tighten the cleanout screw like you are Magilla Gorilla, good n snugg is plenty, same with the nipple.

 

[jethro224]

somebody needs to make a video of cleaning your gun as we all are trying to describe! Pictures/video are easily a 1000 words :wink:

That's a dang good idea!

 

[bucktales]

Heck, I even use an old hair dryer to chase any remaining water out from their hiding places. :haha: