More India made smoothies!?!?!

[ToothPick]

UPDATE>>

I decided to take advantage of the warm weather and took the Indian to the range. I wasn't sure what to expect after reading all the opinions on Indian made guns.



I am happy to say I till have all my fingers and the smoothie was pretty reliable once I switched out the factory small sawn agate flint for a black English knapped flint.

As far as accuracy, well I don't know what to expect as this is first time shooting a smoothbore...this is what it shot at 25 with 80 grains of 2f with a .15 patch and a .610 ball...sure makes big holes in the target

For cleaning I took off the barrel and shot a pic of the markings.

Looks like my gun is 36 years old. Any opinions on who the maker/importer was? Are the older ones known to be better, worse or same quality as the recent imports?

It's ignition time seems pretty quick to me.

[youtube]BWZN1auvFM4[/youtube]

Thanks

 

[ddoyle]

Pretty sweet gun.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Seems pretty quick :hatsoff:

Is that called the Ketland?
Seen them for sale over here.

B.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I believe your gun was made by AHU (ALIPURA GUN FACTORY LATE ABDUL HAKIM USTA.)

There must be 20 makers just in and around Udaipur in Rajasthan India. MKS or Mohanial K. Sikligar is one of the oldest of the firms. I have had three MKS pistols. Last year I purchased a "ketland" style flint pistol that sparked great and shot as reliably as any. I don't know the manufacturer, but I assumed it was Indian

 

[AZbpBurner]

Seems pretty quick :hatsoff:

Is that called the Ketland?
Seen them for sale over here.

B.

My Ketland has a completely round 36" barrel with no wedding bands, while the pictured barrel is flats-to round with double wedding bands & likely somewhere around 4" long. The Ketland lock is marked "Ketland". The pictured stock is of the French Fusil configuration - kinda homely, but VERY comfortable to shoot.

 

[AZbpBurner]

Forgot to mention - Citristrip will remove the existing finish - it comes off looking like baby poo colored goo. I've been using Laurel Mountain Forge American walnut stain. It's easy to use and gives a nice dark, even color. BLO, Tung Oil, or Permalyn Sealer or stock finish will give you a nice durable finish. Permalyn sets up in about 4 hours ( give it a couple of hours more between applications) so you can still add 2 or more apps per day.

 

[ToothPick]

That citrus strip stuff is what I used.
First coat took 90% of the old finish off, 2nd coat completed the job.

thanks

 

[Firelock937]

Everything AZbpBurner has recommended for refinishing is excellent advise, and I would try it first. But having refinished several Indian muskets I have found some of those teak wood stocks will not take a regular stain well at all. It's like it refuses to penetrate in some spots. Wood and even leather dye is needed to get a consistent color on stubborn stocks.

 

[steam1993]

I am looking at getting a 1st pattern brown bess in the next 6 months, and have no problem buying a India made one. The price is right for me, plus I have looked at some before.


Peter

 

[AZbpBurner]

Everything AZbpBurner has recommended for refinishing is excellent advise, and I would try it first. But having refinished several Indian muskets I have found some of those teak wood stocks will not take a regular stain well at all. It's like it refuses to penetrate in some spots. Wood and even leather dye is needed to get a consistent color on stubborn stocks.

My current project is almost complete, just a few more applications of Permalyn Finish & a lot of hand rubbing.

I got a Fusil de Chasse from Loyalist Arms. I requested no wood finish, and what I got seemed to be raw wood, yet saturated with some kind of oil finish. The wood needed shaping, buttplate needed grind-to-fit, and that nasty oil needed to be removed prior to staining. I used an anionic cleaner with surfactants ("Scrubbing Bubbles" bathroom cleaner). It foams up and needs an even scrubdown with bristle brush, rinse & repeat, to remove the absorbed oil. after rinse & dry, the wood is ready for scraping and sanding to shape, final fitting of rod pipes, buttplate and triggerguard. I stained with a water-based Laurel Mountain Forge American Walnut, which is about as dark as you can go. Any water or alcohol-based wood or leather dye will work the best. Sorry Minwax, you're fine for furniture, but not ideal for gunstocks anymore. It took multiple applications of stain to get it evenly dark, and sucks up the Permalyn Sealer and Finish like a sponge for the first 2-3 applications. I use a lint-free cloth material to apply it. Some use a brush, which would work better, since the wood is porous & really sucks up finish until sealed. Brushes are a PITA, since they need cleaning between applications, and you can apply easily 2X / Day.

The 10# Loyalist Fusil de Chasse has a flat-to-round 44" barrel and is a lot stouter than my 6-7# MVTC Ketland Musket, which has a round 36" barrel that is a lot lighter barrel construction. Either India made musket should be regarded as a kit gun. Sure you could likely fire one out of the box, but they look much better and more respectable when hand fitted & finished.

Doubtful teak is actually used for any rifle stocks - too expensive and dense and is more valuable for marine applications. My Fusil de Chasse took multiple applications of stain to get as dark as I could & actually looks like walnut & is denser and better grained than the Ketland wood.

This is my first time using Permalyn sealer and finish. It is lower viscosity than my BLO / Tung blend & varnishes quicker. My mix takes 24 hours to set up between applications, while the Permalyn wipes on and is set up in about 20 minutes and ready to apply more in about 4 hours. My mix fills open grain a little quicker, but the Permalyn sets up much faster.

 

[Firelock937]

Sounds like you've come to the same conclusion a lot of us have....these India guns are pretty much a kit. I usually remove some wood and tighten things up like you mention, as well as polish up the internals of the lock and lighten the usual 30lb trigger pull.
The oil on the stock sounds like some of the Soviet military surplus guns I've gotten soaked in oil and grease. Used oven cleaner on the wood, probably works like the bubbly stuff you used.

 

[Commodore Swab]

Sand the heck out of the wood, India guns tend to be very thick on the wood when compared to the originals. Just remember it will "bleed" so get some stain on it quickly. Every one Ive worked on has bled (At least 50 from all different manufactures). After stained start laying down coats of tru-oil, sometimes I put down 3-5 coats before I touch with steel wool.

As far as the lock goes, the build on the India locks is from bad (I would use horrid but Ill save that for some of the Japan "Tower" pistols) to useable. They do work although they can wear if used much, become unreliable after a few shots, and eat flints. A good lock will deliver 100-300 shots per flint.

 

[rdrash]

Very nicely done Commodore. I keep meaning to call Loyalist but havent got around to it yet. Do they usually have a large inventory? I know they have a lot on there web sight.

 

[Commodore Swab]

I don't know about their inventory. I buy from TRS and Chambers. If somebody wants an India gun I usually direct them to Veteran Arms.

 

[sooter76]

I don't know about their inventory. I buy from TRS and Chambers. If somebody wants an India gun I usually direct them to Veteran Arms.

Why Veteran Arms? What is you like about them over the other India guns importers?

 

[Mickc01]

I VERY nicely done job with that musket, Commodore. Now if you would only get rid of that ugly spark guard. Seriously, I really like it..... :hatsoff:

 

[Commodore Swab]

If you notice Veteran Arms is the only importer offering a mortar. They work with India and are producing new pieces. As India guns are made they are getting better. Working with VA I know I am working with somebody who is getting and dealing with up to date India stuff.

 

[Alden]

What an odd conclusion about one of the newest and smallest sellers (albeit a member) around. Not that there's anything wrong with VA. Well, except selling guns on the internet without disclosing where they were made of course...

 

[coloradoclyde]

Play nice Alden or I'll tell mom you're picking on the neighbor kid again.....

 

[rickystl]

Very nicely re-done. :thumbsup: Rick.