More Misfire Issues - Investarms 54 Caliber

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Turtle2

40 Cal
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
123
Reaction score
47
Location
Colorado
I continue to fight misfire issues with my 54 caliber. Years ago I switched out the stock nipple for a “Red Hot Nipple” (I think is what it was called) and had even more misfires so went back to the stock nipple.
I noticed the stock nipple hole is off centered. Could this be the cause or any thoughts on why the misfire issues? New Triple 7 and new CCI caps and same issue.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_5526.jpeg
    IMG_5526.jpeg
    854.3 KB
Are you getting the ante chamber clean? The offshore riffles have a patent breach. Your jag will only get so far. Get yourself a 30 caliber nylon brush, and use it and patches to get that clean. Not sure if you are swabbing between shots or not, or how bad triple 7 fouls. If you are swabbing, use a damp patch with Windex, or denatured alcohol, damp not wet, and push the jag down slow, and let it sit on the bottom for a few seconds then pull it up. If you push too fast, you're pushing the fouling into the ante chamber, and that will cause blockage. Don't give up, let us know how it goes.
 
And totally degreased? No oil in the fire path? Totally cleaned of fouling in the fire path?

Fouling can be hard to diagnose, identify and remove. It absorbs oil and then fouls the fresh charge. It's terrible!
 
@Turtle2, I've got to agree with the above posts. Misfires are almost always related to an obstruction in the fire channel. A rigorous cleaning of the InvestArms chambered breech is certainly due. Is the percussion cap firing? The caps may be bad. We have seen reports here on the Forum that some of the new CCI caps have been less than reliable. Is the nipple mushroomed at the cone. They are cheap enough to just go ahead and change it out. The other cause is associated with synthetic powders that are safe to use and available but require a much higher ignition temperature. The high ignition temperature coupled with a tortuous path from the nipple seat and a possible fouling in the chambered breech make reliable ignition a challenge. Rarely, there will be shards of metal left in the flash channel causing a partial blockage.

Now, I believe that the InvestArms rifle will have a hooked breech. The barrel can be removed for a vigorous flushing of the barrel and breech. Still the chambered breech needs to be verified clear.
 
try real black powder…. 777 is hard to set off
The powder isn’t the issue here. I’ve fired many shots out of my GPR with 777 and various #11 caps and never had an issue igniting it. This includes days of being loaded in hunting situations. With a properly cleaned gun, it’s not hard to set off at all. Seems like there is a fouling or obstruction issue as others have described. I do shoot real black powder out of my flintlock.

turtle2, are the caps going off each time but not the charge? Other than what others have said, which are likely solutions, consider:
Bad CCI caps. It happened to me. CCI had a few specific lots that did not dry/cure properly. If it takes a few hits to get the cap to go off, contact CCI with the lot number and they’ll refund.
Flared nipple from repeated use has made it difficult to get the cap to seat but not sure it would keep it from going off.
Put the factory (or new OEM) nipple back on. I tried a white hot and had better results with the factory nipple.
If you use anti seize grease on the nipple threads, be very careful not to use get any near the hole on the bottom of the nipple.
Clean the flash hole well with a small pipe cleaner. I put a slight bend at the end and a little finesse to get it in as far as I can. For the first few, I dip them in blue thunder from October Country, then several dry ones.
Others mentioned it but you need a fouling scraper and jag sized for the patent breech to keep it clean.
Pop several caps on the unloaded gun with some shredded paper, etc. near the muzzle to see if you’re getting movement, e.g. clear path. Always pop a few caps before loading for the first time on an outing.
 
Starting with a clean rifle, is your 1st shot a misfire, or do they start occurring after your 1st shot? If only after your 1st shot, recharge the rifle, rap the opposite side from the lock a few times, with rifle tilted at an angle, muzzle up, to drive powder towards the drum. Do this before ramming home your bullet. If you get a misfire [after loading your projectile], wait a minute and then pull the nipple. If you see powder in the drum or snail, you have a nipple/cap/powder ignition problem. If not, you have a plugged flash channel and no powder is getting under your nipple, causing hang or misfires. Trickle enough powder into the drum to fill it up, run a pick through the nipple, put it back and try another cap. If that doesn't fire, it's a bad nipple, caps or powder.
I use t-7 and it makes a bit of a crud ring, near the breech, on every shot. I swab between every shot because I hunt, and all my 1st hunting shots are clean barrel. If you don't swab, there is a good chance your next bullet or prb will drive the crud into the flash channel. If you do swab, you will feel the crud ring. I use avocado oil swabs and work off the ring with a few strokes, with the hammer on half cock to allow venting. I then flip the same patch, give it one more swab and pull the patch out really fast so it pops at the muzzle like a champagne cork. This should create enough suction to clear the channel for the next load. It has worked great for me and all I use is t-7. 2 Traditions Hawkens and 2 TC Hawkens. The patented breeches [TC's and others like yours] are really finicky about this, but my other rifles are subject to the same issues if I am not careful.
Avocado oil is pretty high temp and does a good job of breaking up that ring. Just enough to dampen the swab, without dripping saturation. I buy it in spray cans and lay all my patches out on a cookie sheet and then store them in a plastic tub. Try whatever the real gurus on here tell you, and see what works best for you. Spit can work well for target shooting, but is a no go for hunting, especially in freezing weather. And it doesn't match the lubricity of my clean barrel load for accuracy. [I really don't want spit in my barrel for extended periods of time anyway.]
If you don't do something like this, besides misfires, sooner or later, as the ring builds up, it will prevent you from seating the bullet on the charge. And that can be a lot worse than a misfire. [Look up "ringed barrels"].
Also,I can't speak about Investarms, but the TC's really don't seem to work well with really tiny flash holes in the nipples. They prefer something between .028 and .034. I use the Knight Red Hot nipples in my TC's. Not to be confused with the vented Hot Shot nipples, which don't work at all for me with t-7. The Traditions don't care, and love their factory nipples, until the flash hole is too big. Another story, but anything beyond .034 is trouble territory. Good luck. SW
 
The "clean out" screw should never be removed.
Why is that?
I assumed it was there and called a cleanout for a reason and have been using it as such each time I clean the gun.
Haven't had any issues and it was definitely screwed in too far when I got the gun the nipple wouldn't even sit flush.
 
Get liability insurance.
Why? We remove nipples in our revolvers and muskets when cleaning. You are not going to wear out clean out screw threads any faster. Keep them lubed, neever sieze. If you've pulled an old one and the threads are rusted or deteriorated there is cause for concern in that case.
 
I have absolutely had ignition issues with Triple Seven 2F out of my New Englander. Switched back over to 3F black powder and never an issue. I had several misfires in one day with 2F Triple seven at the range. I was using a standard nipple and not a Hot Shot nipple. Im sure that was the reason.

It sounds like you have an obstruction of some sort in the flash channel somewhere. If its not rust, I suggest you remove the nipple, take a smaller syringe and fill it with lacquer thinner and shoot a full syringe of that down into the flash channel. Position the ML to where the lacquer thinner can remain in there for a while. If there's any crud build up in there, that should cut it loose. Follow up with a white, dry cleaning patch. That will let you know if there was any crud buildup in there.

I do the above every time after cleaning my ML’s and prior to loading them after they have been oiled up and sitting. I store them muzzle up, or hanging on my wall, and I want the Ballistol to stay in the breech/ flash channel. Never an issue.
 
Last edited:
Why is that?
I assumed it was there and called a cleanout for a reason and have been using it as such each time I clean the gun.
Haven't had any issues and it was definitely screwed in too far when I got the gun the nipple wouldn't even sit flush.
Many are not actually a clean out screw.

This is what can happen with removing clean out screws too often.

I agree with some of the posters, those screws should never be removed. There is no reason to do so if you do a good job when cleaning the ML.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2569.png
    IMG_2569.png
    2 MB
Why is that?
I assumed it was there and called a cleanout for a reason and have been using it as such each time I clean the gun.
Haven't had any issues and it was definitely screwed in too far when I got the gun the nipple wouldn't even sit flush.
The "clean out" screw is an artifact left over from the manufacturing of the drum and some breech plugs from the drilling of flash channel from the nipple set to the powder chamber. The cheap solution is to install a threaded fastener as a plug. Now that the threaded fastener is ther and it has a slot the item needed a name and for lack of a better name it was called a "clean out" screw. Yes, it can be removed and is effective for cleaning out the barrel and breech or for adding powder to unload a dry ball. All too often the screw is soft and the slot gets deformed. T/C had to redesign their breech as their "clean out" screw slots got destroyed when removed to flush the barrel of the hooked breech rifles. (i destroyed the slot in my T/C Hawken by removing it as a clean out feature.) The last of the T/C breeches don't have a clean out screw and they drill the flash channel from the opposite side from the nipple seat and truly plug the drilled hole. Not all original breeches either the drum or the "patent" breech have a threaded screw that could be construed as a "clean out" feature. As Alex has observed, that screw can be installed in ways that can obstruct the installation of the nipple, sometimes blocking the flash hole or locking the nipple in the nipple seat.

Treat it as a "clean out" screw and be sure to always use a never seizing lubricant on the threads or you will have a plug. Take care to always use a screw driver that perfectly fits the slot or the slot will be destroyed and you will have a plug. Replace it with a very short hardened cap screw be sure to use never seizing lubricant on the threads.

Or, if it is not interfering with the nipple, leave it alone and never remove it. Effective cleaning can be done when the nipple is removed. Oh, and use never seizing lubricant on the threads of the nipple.

I'm in the never remove the "clean out" screw camp. Same advice for the touch hole liner for a flintlock.
 
Back
Top